speaking of a 'perception of value'

check this out for $1000
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...d/1_series/15/

compared to this for $895
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...r/trent_07.htm


bike specs are not hard to compare: components all come from a limited number of makers:
without regard to any agruement over MSRP or frame salespitch
it is easy to compare bike 'value'

we have more and more customers that are using sites like:
http://www.roadbikebuyersguide.com/

I love a free market where customers can directly compare products

Does your warranty compare to Trek?

Does he pay for the R&D that designed those frames?

YES

YES

No, I'm calling you out on that one Mike. Your frames are ones that are generally available to any number of buyers - that's why they show up at Pedal Force and elsewhere or are Fuji's from three or four years ago. You're not camped out in a wind tunnel or sitting there with a team of CAD scientists. You're buying frames from factories that make many many frames for many many brands.


And what's with the sudden explosion of BikesDirect threads this morning? There are suddenly like four. Did Mike get back from holiday? Did he notice that there hadn't been any BD threads in a while and complain to BF admins that he wasn't getting his money's worth?

Every time this BD BS comes along (and it always comes in spurts) I'm inclined to go find an impartial forum where everything is generated by the loonies who populate it, not the ones who pay the requisite bribes.

....and awaaaaaaayyyyyyy we go...

now now mike, are you sure about that?


trek's is... http://www.trekbikes.com/images/sect...t/lifetime.jpg

last time i checked, only some of your frames are warrantied for life, where as others are only warrantied for a year. why the discrepancy?

[Re: warranty]

I like this one:

What is the Warranty? Is Bikesdirect an authorized Motobecane dealer?
Yes, Bikesdirect.com is a fully authorized Motobecane USA dealer and an official national warranty claims/service center. You get the Full Lifetime Motobecane USA Warranty coverage for all new Motobecane USA bicycles purchased from us. Feel free to verify this by contacting www.motobecane.com (info@motobecane.com).

Mike! That's you! I'd wager a pretty hefty sum of cash that BikesDirect answers info@motobecane.com!

And no, your warranty is not as good as Trek's. Don't be so patently absurd. Your Motobecane carbon fibre frame randomly breaks, you make me pay for it. Trek gives me a new one. I snap one of your carbon forks, you make me pay for it. Trek gives me a new one for five years. Your cranks snap, you make me pay for it. Bontrager cranks snap, I get a new one for five years.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

He he! You love it!

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~mans1210/phot...dead_horse.gif

I'll let you guys crank up your blood pressure. I'm off to ride my bike!

(on the trainer... it's raining...)


(Thing is, if Mike had an honest website and was honest about things like warranty - like 'Yeah, well we can't match Trek's warranty, but we're a small company, and hey, for $1,000 less than Trek, we still think you're getting a really great deal' - I'd probably be queuing up to buy one!)

'Oh, you're a very bad man!'

(The wonders of YouTube! I bet the negative impact on the world economy caused by YouTube measures in the billions...) :)

Some frames we use are proven designs used by others - I think that is a good idea
A FEW MODELS YOU WILL NOT FIND ELSEWHERE
Fly Team, Fly Team Ti, le Champion Ti versions, Fanton 29, Outcast 29, Key West, Key Largo, Serpens, Knight, Fantom Trail, etc plus several that are being released this year - including Ti cross, Ti 29er, 853 mountain XC, wide tire design track/fixtie, and an upper end touring bike.

But I agree - I see no reason to reinvent the wheel - when I can find a design that works great for its intended use; I'll use it. If not, I'll just design my own.

Either way, we can deliver a high grade bike at much less than customers pay in bike shops. If we didn't our business would not be growing faster than we can keep up.

I keep a close tab on % of business that is related to legacy brands, advertising, and referrals. Previous customer referrals are our fastest growing source of new customers. So I think we are doing OK - thanks for your concern

I find the anti-BD trolls here puzzling. I'm not a BD shill. I'm just a consumer with lots of high end bike schwag who wanted another pricey bike and found BD's values compelling. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with Bikes Direct's business model? What's wrong with BD having a relationship with Bike Forums? How is that sinister? People come on here and trash BD all the time. They're not censored.

I just don't get it. I think these BD trolls are all Communists, especially that silly Brit dude who rides his trainer because it's raining. That must mean he never rides outdoors. It's always raining in the UK. How seriously can anybody take that guy as a cyclist? Cyclists ride their bikes in the real world.

^^^^ Yup yup.

You mean like botto?

;)

i'm not trolling, per se. hell, i've sent some shekels to bd.

i just find mike's attitude smug and disingenuous.

At least you're not smug.

I had never heard of BD until about 5 weeks ago when I started checking forums out (RoadBikeReview, Slowtwitch, and this one last, although this seems to be the best). I have been looking to get a new bike to replace my 1992 Kestrel and really wanted the RT700. My LBS that carries Kestrel cannot get them and never calls back.

Then I come across the Holiday special and the bike I want is now 1/2 price. Not quite the same components but wait, a Force upgrade is available for a nominal cost and I can get the aero seatpost at 60% of retail.

I run the risk of having problems but Mike has been very responsive to getting me what I want at a great price. As a consumer I respond heavily to customer service and that is what I have been getting. Therefore BD deserved my $. If the experience goes great, I win and BD wins because I will talk about them. If the experience runs not so great I re-evaluate the risk/reward for the next time around and BD may get some not-so-good word of mouth.

This is the market system. What risk are you willing to take and how much will it cost you? BD's cost is low enough for me to bear some risk. This does not make me a shill but a consumer.

i'm plenty smug, but i'm not trying to sell anything on bf.

I, for one, would be disappointed if botto did not find EVERYONE's attitude smug and disingenuous. :D

How about botto T-shirts? Think of it as the opposite of the 'Life is Good' shirts.

Are you sure?:)

If my customer's Trek/Fisher/LeMond frame or any component on it fails, does he/she need to pay me to disassemble it (or do it himself), then box it and ship it off at his expense to the importer's US base and patiently wait while it is evaluated for warrantability?

Or does he walk into ANY Trek/Fisher/LeMond dealer, point out the problem, have it photographed and submitted online to Trek at no charge, and then in most cases be back on the road quickly with an equal or better frame after paying nothing for the disassambly/reassembly? For components, it's usually an on-the-spot replacement if we have it in stock.

You don't offer that. Maybe someday.;)

As much as you'd like people to think you equal Trek, you do not. And that's OK. You have a fine product at a great price. Isn't that a good enough leg to stand on? You should say "who cares about the warranty? I'm saving you so much $$ you can buy two and then you'll have a convenient parts bike on hand!":D

I've owned high end bike crap for 20 years. Warranty claims? Two, both with Cannondale, both resolved amicably, the second time not without some hollering on my part. In other words, it's a potential issue, but in my mind it's a minor one in the Big Picture.

In other words 90%+ of the time it never rears its head. Ultimately if it does, BD offers a warranty, which by the very nature of arms-length retail will never be as convenient as the LBS. But you know that going in. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

I must say thank you for understanding that we offer a great value.

However, please read [1]the question I was ask; [2]my answer; [3]Motobecane warranty; and [4]the Trek warranty.
I think that my answer was exactly correct. And I think you covering labor of Trek claims is great; I have done that on all warranty claims since 1977. However, that is beyond what the Trek warranty calls for now; or when I was selling them.

Of course, as a bike dealer, you know as I do - the number of defects in ANY high grade bike brand is close to zero. Trek, Motobecane, Giant, Specialized, Fuji, Felt, Jamis, Windsor, and so on - defects are rare beyound beleif. One of the really nice things about the bike biz: [and one of the things we can all say thank you to Shimano & Suntour for. Just like with cars - the japanesse raised the bar on QC for everyone.