Just looking to set the height of my saddle on new ZX3. An article in this months Cycling Plus refers to a number of methods - Lemond method, the Heel method, the Holmes method and the 109% method. They recommend the 109% methond - 109% of your inseam should be the distance from saddle to pedal axle.

The question(s) I have are as follows: should the measurement be done in your bare feet or cycling shoes? And should the measurement be applied from the top of the seatpost or top of the saddle?

Any comments welcome on this or other ways of setting saddle height. Cheers.

Good questions. I've seen this method presented most frequently as taking the measurements in bare feet and then applied from the top of the saddle not the seatpost. BTW, why did you deceide on this method? I've always felt that this method got you into the range of where you should be. But because of variables like foot size and how much you flex your ankle as you move through the pedal stroke, it was not the most accurate. My personal opinion is that after you've got the seat in the correct range of where it should be, there's nothing quite as accurate as having a knowledgeable rider ride behind you to watch for hip rocking. I've found success with taking the seat up to the point where rocking is noticeable and then lowering it just a cm or so... have the rider behind me observe again, and lower again is rocking is still present.

Cheers for that. Just saw it in Cycling Plus among other methods. I've always just set the saddle so my heel is flat at the bottom of the pedal stroke and my knee is slightly bent. According to the same article, the most efficient angle is 25 degrees but you have to buy a contraption called a goniometer to get the exact angle. Think I'll try the 109% method and use that in conjunction with what I normally do.

barefoot and top of the saddle.

Use it to get in the ballpark then make small adjustments.

As a starting point, I just rest my heel on my pedal with the crank in line with the seat tube and adjust the saddle so my leg is locked at this point. Then, I ride for a while. If the saddle is too low, it'll start irritating my knees just below my kneecap. I immediately raise it slightly - I don't wait until I am home. If it is too high, then the tendons on the back of my knee will start becoming irritated, and I'll lower the saddle a smidge. My first rides are always solo so I don't have a problem with stopping many times to get the adjustment correct. There is a narrow sweet spot between these two opposing knee problems, and if I get the saddle into this position, I can hammer all day and not feel knee pain.

Theres no exact science to setting saddle height, theres no computer program that will get you the best saddle height, its something that you need to determine for yourself based on your style of riding.

The first thing you have to do is determine your pedalling style. There are basically two styles of pedalling, the flat foot or pointed toe. Each style involves different seat heights, slightly higher for the pointed toe style.

Next, do you spin or do you mash? In general, if you spin, the saddle height is slightly lower than if you mash.

A trainer works really well for getting a baseline. Get on a trainer and start pedalling until you are comfortable, then stop pedalling and hold one foot at the bottom of your pedal stroke in its natural position (flat foot or pointed, depending on your riding style) and look at how much your knee is bent. It should be bent slightly, more if you spin, less if you mash. If your leg is straight, the seat is too high, if your knee is bent BMX style, it too low.

Now go out and ride. You should be able to spin easily without rocking your hips back and forth and without bouncing in the saddle.

Once you have a baseline, then make adjustments. Don't be afraid to experiment.

One of the best ways to dial in your saddle height is to ride with someone, usually a racer/fast rider that knows what they are doing. Have them watch you as you ride and comment on whether they think the saddle is too high or too low, and then try changing it to see if it works.

The 109% method do not compensate the difference if you're using differnet crankarm length. I use the test ride method and change my saddle height regularly according to my condition, different seat height and fore/aft position allow me to work on different muscles.

I would normally say with shoes on because various sole thicknesses and cleat stack heights will effect how this works, but if you did that with this method, you wouldn't be able to reach the pedals on the downstroke. By process of elimination, I'd say this method should be done barefoot as mentioned by jynx. Even then, it seems a bit high, but I wouldn't be sure unless I tried it.

The only method that would compensate for that would be one that measures to the bottom bracket instead of the pedal or otherwise requires two calculations (pedal down and pedal up) and the average between them. I'm not even convinced such compensation would be required.

Some people can take a real long time to say that.

Right. I agree. Variations in saddle height and fore/aft positions allow for different muscles to work and also allow for greater strengthening of knees and the like. If someone constantly keeps the same position, it catches up in the long term.

Also I know my ideal position in the Spring is different from the Fall as my performance improves. I make adjustments maybe three times over the course of the year.

What about angle?

Should the saddle be level?

Start with it level. If you feel too much pressure on your arams, wrists, and hands, tilt it up. If you feel pressure from the nose, tilt it down. Play around until you find the right spot.

Inseam for most (all?) of the various rules of thumb is measured with bare feet, and a book wedged into your crotch to simulate saddle pressure. Back up to the wall so the book is against the wall, then have an assistant measure from the top of the book to the floor. Do it a few times and average the result.

The rules of thumb are just starting points. Some of them date from before clipless pedals, most of them assume standard 170mm cranks. Use your brain when applying them.

Interesting to hear about the different methods. I just set it for where it feels right. Oddly enough, it seems to line up pretty close to the 1.09 rule measured without shoes and to the top of the saddle.

https://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/20...le-height.html

If you don't race, I believe 109% is too high for most including me. This is my experience. Can I ride it that high? Sure. Am I the most efficient that way? Nope.
As to a saddle being level, I would say that is the best starting point. For me it is always a balance between slipping forward and perineal pressure.

^ Why would it make a difference if you race or not?

Because those that race tend to be better physical specimens with more flexibility in their hip abductors and can tolerate greater leg extension without hip rocking. This has been my experience and also portends to Lemond's .883 X's formula.

Ah ok, so anyone with experience and good form could stand it (I know some recreational riders with better form than some racers, so I'll go with experience over racing or not), but not a neophyte who thought their BMX seat was high.

I have a decent pedaling stroke technically and have a lot of experience but am old and don't have a lot of hip flexibility. Where I find the 109% method most problematic is in the drops with even further closed hip angle as do many older cyclists.

Using numbers and formulaes is a surefire way of getting someone elses fit. THe only method you need to know is that too high seat = rocking hips, which means lower until it disappears.

I think toes down vs flat foot is worth a few cm higher.

It's the length from the saddle to the pedal spindle. How does that not compensate for crank arm length? Shorter cranks will get a taller saddle height thus ensuring identical leg extension regardless of crank length.

The following study underscores the difference between various methods of determining best saddle height. There is a wide spectrum of resultant knee angles between the methods and why at the end of the day trial and error and measuring knee angle dominate for optimum overall saddle height. There are even two ways to evaluate optimal knee angle. One is the perspective of injury pervention and the other is in the vane of maximizing kinematic efficiency i.e. speed...pick one :-)

https://www.asep.org/files/PevelerSaddle.pdf