I am thinking out loud here guys but I would appreciate any real input besides you don't need them.
My wife has given me the green light to get a new set of wheels. My Mavic ES's have almost 30,000 miles on them and have been a very faithful work horse. I am not looking to replace them as much as I am looking to compliment with another wheelset that will focus on the ES's weakness and that is mainly it's aero capabilities. My budget ceiling is $1,200 and I am pretty sure I want to keep clincher just for the fact that they are easier and if I get a double flat on the road I won't be stuck. I can always borrow a extra tube from a pal. At this point in my mind I have categorized my wheel choices into 2 categories. Higher and lower quality. In my price range the better wheels look to be heavier then what I percieve to be a lower end wheel.
In the higher quality category I have these:
1. Mavic Carbone SL New......heavy wheel
2.Hed Jet 50 new.....a little more money and a little lighter

In the lower quality wheel

1. Williams C50
2. Neuvation c50c

Do you guys think I am doing myself a disservice to consider the Williams and Neuvations as a lower quality alternative to the Mavic's and the HED's?
Would you guys rather have one of those 4 wheels listed new with warranty or a used set of 404's?

North of the Azores, South of Kaffeklubben Island, I would go with a set of Ultegra/Open Pros from Performance for $225.

I already have Ksyriums. I have the bulletproof non aero thing handled already.

Reynolds Attack, I believe they retail for just under $1,200 but shop around.

Do you want to change brake pads every time you swap wheels? Full carbon rims require special pads and you should not use pads on aluminum rims and then on carbon rims- pieces of aluminum get embedded in the pads and can chew up the carbon.

Some full carbon rims have the braking surface lower than normal and require special offset pad holders. For those you'd need to swap pad holders and re-align and toe them each time. With the special holders in you probably can't just put a regular wheel in there (like could happen at a race if you need to use a spare wheel).

The Attacks are 34mm. I was wanting something closer to 50mm The Assaults are a possibility but I believe they are an OEM wheel only.....at least for now.

I have thought about that as well. It is not a big deal to me to swap out the pads when need be. If I need to swap an aluminum wheel in during a race I will just deal with the consequences as they come.
So for me full carbon versus aluminum braking service really makes no difference.

Look on ebay at the Spinergy Stealth carbon wheelset. It's a 43mm low spoke count wheel that worked flawlessly for me.

Check out some of Soul's wheels. They have some 40mm Al wheels due soon and then I think 50mm carbon wheels with an Al braking surface.

I would get the Neuvation 48c wheelset for the alum breaking surface

I have a set of Bontrager Aeolus 5.0 (read HED 50) 50mm full carbon clinchers on ebay right now. Rserve is $200.00 more than your budget. They are $2,499.00 new. I've ridden them once (37 miles).

The auction is only going to last another hour or so...

Check these out.

They're a little heavier than neuvations, but they're also 12mm deeper. $1050, shipping included.

https://www.bikesoul.com/s6.html

If Soul had a US contact I would be tempted.

I understand your hesitation. I'm in a similar position, but their prices make them too good to pass up. I bought a used set of neuvations, but I'm probably going to buy soul's for my next wheelset. Some forum members have had good luck with them as well.

The neuvations should serve you well as a race day/once in a while club ride wheelset. I just wouldn't train on those everyday, though CDR told me I should save up for a zipp powertap and ride it everyday. I weigh 145, so I probably don't do much damage haha.

The choice for ~50mm carbon clinchers for less than $1200 is limited to the Williams, Soul, Neuvation and Spinnergy.
Possibly a set of FFWD wheels but I don't know how much they cost in the US. I've seen them for about 1000 Euro

I have a set of Spinnergy Stealth PBO FCC that I got for ~1100 from Kim's bikes off of eBay.
They are very smooth riding wheels. https://www.spinergy.com/Bicycle/stealthFCC.html

This whole subject is confusing to me. I just do not want to buy the WRONG wheel set. How heavy is to heavy...How Aero is aero enough to really feel it. I am still leaning towards the Mavic Cosmic Carbones just because they are a known bulletproof wheel. I almost feel like the Neuvations, Soul's, Williams are just thrown together wheels thrown out there to make a buck but I could be wrong.
I have a PT wheelset already which will be on the bike for most of my solo rides and I agree that it is a great tool that you should have before aero wheels...or at the same time if you can swing it.

They use a carbon spoke right? No concerns?

No concerns.

From the Sinnergy site:

Spinergy engineers have invented a revolutionary technology for stronger, lighter and faster wheels. Introducing PBO Fiber Spoke Technology. Every PBO spoke contains over 30,000 strands of polyphenylene bensobisoxazole fiber, delivering 3-times the strength of stainless steel at just half the weight. Giving you the ultimate edgeThe PBO fiber strands are encased in a chemical resistant, water / UV proof composite offered in a variety of colors. The outcome is a flexible spoke with incredible strength that will absorb impact more efficiently while staying in true. Our patented PBO spokes are lighter than traditional steel spokes which results in less rotational weight and a faster responding wheel – giving you the ultimate edge. All this delivers a wheel that is lighter, stronger, faster and superior in every way.

https://www.spinergy.com/Bicycle/tech...ature_PBO.html

You don't need to change pads everytime you switch wheels. Swiss Stop yellow pads go both ways and do not pick up metal from alu rim surfaces. You don't need the offset pad holders either. I just lowered my brakes pads slightly and everything was good. It takes 2 minutes (or less) to adjust all four brake shoes.
My new rear (replacement) wheel will be here tomorrow (Williams 50C full carbon), so a ride report will follow. I just did a loop around the 'hood on the front one and I can tell you that it's stiff! The wheels seem very stout...only time will tell.

Carbones are bulletproof, but heavier than the full carbon setups that are out there.

Kieth Williams emailed me this morning. I was questioning if your rim issue was a one time deal or if he had been seeing your problem on a consistent basis. He assured me that it was the first one that he has seen and that they were going to get to the bottom of it. He also said they only have 3 sets left in stock till summer so I may be out of luck when I am able to purchase in two weeks......

I actually like the Neuvations or the Souls the best on paper, because they don't have hidden nipples. Dunno about hub quality though.

I still miss my Spinergy Stealth PBO's. I think they were the most comfortable wheel I have ever ridden. Not the lightest wheelset I have owned but they were the most enjoyable.

I think a big cost with the nicer tall rim wheels are the hubs. Personally I can't see the difference between a cheap front hub and a more expensive one. So I'd get a set of wheels based on the rim and its "rebuildability". This assumes the rim is strong enough to last a long time.

A Williams 50c seems nice (it was on my short list - I went with used Reynolds DV46c instead) and if the hub ends up disappointing you, you can rebuild the rear using any 32H hub (since it's 24H last time I checked). Rear hubs make a difference to me so I'd be willing to rebuild a wheel simply to get a better rear hub.

Used you should be able to pick up wheels at a good price, it just takes longer. This is why I went with the DV46c - they were about $200 cheaper than new Williams wheels and they included some new tires (4000s), latex tubes (michelin), a ti cassette (no name), wheel bags (black, forget the name on them), truing tool, valve extender, and shipping. Plus they have the nice hubs (White Industries? I get them and the other nice hub mixed up) so no need to rebuild a wheel for the hub.

I have a friend who broke a shoulder on a Mavic wheel - the freehub body freewheeled forward. Two more sets of wheels did the same thing, one while I was riding with him. Don't know what caused it but I'm ignorant enough to keep Mavics off my list of acceptable hubs for now.

cdr

ha, nice reference to my homeland.

Way wrong......