mustang1

also fugly, like someone's wrx above. but i prefer a hyundia over a wrx. you get a 5 yr warranty with a hyundai.

mustang1

both fugly, esp wrx. but that evo aint far behind. i like gtr.

big john

hos13

Are the Mets really a better team this year?

NoGaBiker

I've always paid cash for new Porsches and have insured them since Day 1. Money is a tool to be used to purchase that which is more valuable to the holder than the money is. In my case, the paltry $900 a year it costs me to insure a (currently) $45,000 asset is money extremely well spent. It would take exactly 50 years of $900 payments to replace this car. I think that it's likely that in 50 years of driving I would either experience an unrecovered theft, a single accident that would total the car OR several smaller accidents that would add up to the replacement value of the car. Therefore, collision insurance seems to be a great value to me, and believe me, if you can afford to absorb the loss of an expensive car, the $900 is not going to be a concern.

EDIT: I just checked my policy -- the collision, uninsured motorist, and comprehensive sections add up to $241. The rest is mandatory to get licensed in GA. SO, it would take 187 years of accident-free driving to equal the money saved if I dropped collision. Pretty sure thing to me.

Snow_canuck

Only if it comes with a kick stand.

merlinextraligh

$241 a year, 20 years invested is going to be in the $10,000 to $20,000 range, depending on what rate of return you assume. How much have you received in insurance claims from your insurance carrier in the last 20 years?

Also if your premium for those coverages on a late model Porsche is only $241 for the entire year, you're probably already carrying a substantial deductible (i.e. self insuring the first dollars of your risk.)

The premium you pay for any insurance, on average, over time, will be more than the payout you receive, adjusted for the time value of money. It has to be that way, or the insurance company wouldn't make a profit, and would not continue to offer the insurance.

So there are 2 ways to go 1) pay an insurance company to underwrite your risk, or 2) underwrite the risk yourself, and pocket the profit portion of the premium.

Obviously stroking a check to replace a new Porsche may be more risk than most people are comfortable undertaking. (and I never recomended not carrying collision on a new Porsche anyway.)

My point was, and is, anyone who has enough money to make a reasonable financial decision to buy a $20,000 bicycle, would be in a position to easily self insure that risk.

Think of it this way. If $20,000 is one week's income, then maybe buying a $20,000 bike wouldn't be that unreasonable (depending on what you value.) And if you clear $20,000 a week, its not going to be a big deal if you have to replace the bike.

Ritterview

I tried to configure a $20,000 bike using the Competitive Cyclist Kit Calculator, but I came up short. Maybe someone can get a bike above $20,000.

PRICE:
$18,602.60
FRAME:
Colnago Extreme Power with selected components from Record package Saronni Red 55cm
Fork:
Colnago C75 Carbon Monocoque
Bottom Bracket:
Campagnolo Record UT Bottom Bracket Cup Set 70 Italian
Brake Calipers:
Campagnolo Record Skeleton Brake Calipers
Cassettes:
Campagnolo Record-10 Steel/Titanium Cassette 12/25
Chains:
Campagnolo Record Ultra Narrow Chain
Cranks:
SRM SRAM Carbon Professional Powermeter System 175mm
Front Derailleurs:
Campagnolo Record Front Derailleur Braze-on
Handlebar Tape:
Cinelli Cork Handlebar Tape Yellow
Handlebars:
Zipp SLC2 Carbon Fiber Handlebar 46cm
Headset:
Chris King NoThreadset 1-1/8" Headset Gold
Integrated Shift/Brake Levers:
Campagnolo Record QS Ergopower Levers
Pedals:
Look Keo Carbon HM Titanium Pedals
Rear Derailleurs:
Campagnolo Record-10 Double Full Carbon Rear Derailleur
Saddles:
Selle Italia SLR Teknologika Flow Saddle
Seatpost:
Campagnolo Record Carbon Seatpost 350mm 31.6mm
Stems:
Zipp 145 Carbon Fiber Stem 31.8mm 130mm
Computers:
Garmin Edge 705 GPS/HRM w/Data Card
Water Bottle Cages:
Campagnolo Record Carbon Water Bottle Cage
Pre-Built Wheels:
Lightweight Obermayer G3 Tubular Wheelset Campagnolo 12 Spoke Front/20 Spoke Rear
Rimstrips:
Velox Fond de Jante Rimstrip 17mm
Tires:
Continental Grand Prix 4000 S Clincher Black/Black
Tubes:
Michelin Aircomp Ultralight Presta Tube 52mm
Skewers:
DT Swiss RWS Titanium Quick Release Skewers

merlinextraligh

The custome Parlee, featured in USA Today goes for $23,000. You're not shopping in expensive enough places

ElJamoquio

PRICE: $25,714.84
FRAME: BMC Time Machine TT 01 with selected components from Record package Team Red Custom
Fork: Time Machine TT 01 Carbon Monocoque Aero Fork
Aerobars: Zipp VukaAero Handlebar
Base Bars: Oval Concepts A700 Cow Horn TT Bar 42cm
Bottom Bracket: Zipp VumaQuad Ceramic Bottom Bracket 68 English
Brake Calipers: Zero Gravity N.E.R.D. Limited Edition Brake Calipers
Brake Levers: Oval Concepts Carbon Fiber Reverse Brake Levers Red Carbon
Cassettes: Campagnolo Record-10 Steel/Titanium Cassette 11/21
Chains: Campagnolo Record Ultra Narrow Chain
Cranks: SRM Professional Carbon Powermeter System Front Wheel Sensor, 31.8mm Clamp 175mm
Front Derailleurs: Campagnolo Record Front Derailleur Braze-on
Handlebar Tape: Cinelli Cork Handlebar Tape Black
Headset: Aero Hinge Integrated Headset
Pedals: Speedplay Zero Titanium Pedals Black
Rear Derailleurs: Campagnolo Record-10 Double Full Carbon Rear Derailleur
Saddles: Fizik Pavé HP Titanium Saddle
Seatpost: Time Machine TT 01 Integrated Carbon Aero Post
Shift Levers: Campagnolo 10-Speed Bar End Shift Levers
Stems: Aero Hinge Integrated Stem
Computers: Garmin Edge 705 GPS/HRM w/Data Card
Water Bottle Cages: Zipp Carbon Fiber Water Bottle Cage
Pre-Built Wheels: Lightweight Ventoux Tubular Wheelset, 20/20 Shimano
Rimstrips: None
Tires: Zipp Tangente Dimpled Tubular Tire
Tubes: None
Skewers: Zipp Titanium Skewers

recursive

Insurance is never a good investment if you can afford to take the loss. How do you think insurance companies make money?

Ritterview

Yeah, but I knew of the TT 01, but I figured a time trial bike was a special case.

patentcad

They don't have a leasing program like BMW?

SushiJoe

Custom Serotta Meivici frame is about $10k and custom LEW Racing wheels are $15k. Then you still get to add on components after spending that $25,000.

TONYKART125

Mustang1- Mustangs are fuglier than wrx and evo unless you got that old whip.

fprintf

Re: the insurance debate. The guys advocating self-insurance are absolutely correct. However along with that risk comes... risk, which is a possibility you will be on the short end of the self-funding. We do this in the medical insurance business all the time. For those companies/people who are marginally able to self-fund, we have something called stop loss, which is an insurance policy against catastrophic loss. In the instance of a car, it is best described as a very high deductible policy... say $20k deductible on a $100k car. The savings from not covering that first $20k is really substantial, and if you get lucky and don't get into an accident, then you do indeed pocket the money.

Insurance is legalized and state mandated gambling. You are betting a substantial sum of money each year that you will not get into an accident. The insurance actuaries have spread the risk over many millions of people and have calculated the risk that any one person will get into an accident to very predictable levels. They know the payouts and then add a few percentage points onto that (claim fluctuation margin among other things) to account for higher than expected claims. They know with remarkable certainty how much money they are going to make off of you and everyone else. Their advantage over you and me is that they have millions of customers to spread car accidents across, whereas you only have yourself. Self-insurance is therefore a very very risky proposition.

Insurance lesson over. Insurance companies make money off of you. But they make it possible for people to drive vehicles and own homes that they would otherwise never be able to afford to lose. That is why I can drive a $25k Mini, otherwise I'd be driving a used Hyundai... cause I can't afford to lose $25k but I could $2k.

umd

This debate is trickier with expensive items like cars and houses, since most people woudn't be able to afford to lose that money, as you've said. But take it the other extreme, and you have the insurance in the form of extended warranties that stores (particularly electronics) try to sell. If you think about it, you have all these devices and if you took the cost of all of the warranties, and the real failure rate, you would see that you would be spending more on the warranties together than you would likely spend on replacing a few of the items. In this case you are acting as your own insurance, spreading the risk across all of the devices.

Back to cars, think about if you owned 100 cars. The cost to insure all of them for a year would likely cost more that the cost of replacing any one of them. Insuring all of them individually would be silly; what would be the chance you would need to replace one or more in a year. Now, if you did own 100 cars, you would probably want some kind of blanket coverage against wholesale theft (i.e. a team of theives breaks in and steals many of them), or some catastrophic incident destroys where they are stored. I imagine that car dealers probably have some kind of similar coverage.

FatguyRacer

Me too. Thats why i would by rather spend 10K+ on another used Ducati (I have an ST4s now) before I would overspend on a new bicycle. But I need a new bike. The team deal we get on the System Six and Caad9s is pretty sweet and wouldnt break anyones bank.

FatguyRacer

Do you think you'd be any faster on a Time Machine?

The way I figure it, the potential embrassment of not turning out a sub 53 min 40k on a 25k TT bike might give you all the adrenaline you need to achive the 53 min 40k.

The price of failure is far too great to risk it.

ShadowGray

Pssh, look don't count for crap. What about those people who dirt up their bikes to prevent being stolen? It's all about the stealth.

BMWs are really nice, especially with the new 330is, they're creeping up to M3 speeds.

And GT-Rs are nice, at least the pre-2003 ones with the R34 and R32 bodies. The new ones are just not GT-Rs anymore... they're trying too hard to be supercars.

Well, same with the new scoobies and evos.

KirkeIsWaiting

So your point was about a bike?
Where did not insuring your Porsche come in? And what's the point in financing the Porsche to begin with? I've never had to finance a car. I pay cash and I don't live beyond my means either. That's not to say that if I wanted a Porsche, or felt the need to drive one, that I couldn't pay cash for it. That's not the issue.
From what I'm gathering, you wouldn't feel it was necessary to insure a home either? Sure, take that $124 a month in homeowners insurance and invest it. But where do you live after a natural disaster while you wait out that 20 yrs of investing?
I actually like the idea of homeowner's insurance. While living on a barrier island just four blocks wide, knowing the cost of rebuilding a home at today's dollar and not the $87k I paid for it in 1996, insurance seems a worthwhile investment. At today's cost I might be closer to $350k for the same home.

Whereas you may just be right with that $80K investment (?) in that Porsche. Depreciation is rapid in automobiles. It could be worth a mere $55k in 12 months of driving (or posing).

go figure.

Back to my original thought ... Does anyone insure their bicycles?

mustang1

I like the old Mustangs and the new Mustangs. But I'm not sure why you're bringing up Mustangs for... who mentioned Mustangs? I could quite easily bring up "Fiats are crap" but no one brought up Fiat did they?

mustang1

Of course looks count. I wouldn't even bother looking at a car/house/motorbike/cycle/watch/hifi/tv/whatever unless it looked nice. The first thing I want in anything I buy (unless it's a DIY tool like hammer/screwdriver/etc) is for it to look nice. Then it must also perform it's function for which I will use it. An Audi A5 looks nice, but doesn't drive too well. But if the only purpose of buying that car is for looks, then mission accomplished.

New 330s are not creeping up to M3 speeds, unless you're talking about new 330s going to OLD M3 speeds. New M3s will always be faster than new 330s... but I think you were comparing new 330s to old M3s.

I used to only like R34s (when they came out) but I still like R32s and R33s. My friend has a black R34 modified slightly, black, black windows, bigger tailpipe, nice sounding engine. I do like the new GTR as well. But seriously, you seen that new Evo and Scooby... I mean... wtf are those designers doing?

Sorry to hijack thread... but I didn't start on the scooby thing.

Hickeydog

For me, a $20,000 bike is better than a $15,000 car. Why? Looking at $20,000 bike porn is oh so much more enjoyable than looking at $15,000 car porn. Besides. I can't afford either, so what difference does it make for me?

NoGaBiker

I suspect he's actually talking about the 335i, which is in fact creeping up on M3 speeds. It's the 300hp twin turbo six, and many sources are reporting rwhp of more than 300 hp, indicating crank hp more like 330 or so.