BikesDirect
06-26-08, 12:42 PM
#51
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I understand that you're new and all, but:
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.
BikesDirect has been discussed at least 500 times last week.
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.
BikesDirect has been discussed at least 500 times last week.
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Ride more.
Ride more.
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$i+3 > catch { break >>)).replace('&','') ; $ofs=" " # Replace right angles with right curly braces
06-26-08, 01:01 PM
#53
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Check this out... I bought a Grand Sprint this spring. I looked past all the bs about the name on the frame and the silly statments on the site about it and chose the model based solely on getting more bike for the money than what I'd get in a LBS. The bike arrived just fine, and I breathed a sigh of relief of knowing I'd not have to sort out any problem with BD right off the bat....untill my first ride involved a kid running across the bike path, wiping me out, and damaging my rear wheel.
I look into it, and the manufacturer of the wheel has a no fault warranty. All I need is an invoice for the purchase and I can get a new wheel at 75% off. Mind you, I already spent the next few days retruing the wheel myself but am curious what the cost will be. (Wheel is fine now, but i dont expect it to last as long as an uncrashed wheel would)
I email BD saying my VueltaXRP super lite rear wheel is f-ed and need an invoice for a warranty claim.
7 days later they respond, "oh, we would be able to honor that warranty for you as we are a Vuelta dealer. What wheel do you need?"
"VueltaXRP super lite rear wheel" (uh, thought I already told you)
Two and a half weeks go by with no response. I get annoyed and say "hey, just send me an invoice like I initially asked for"
I then get a snotty reply saying "the wheels are on back order, but I was about to pull a wheel off a bike in for a photo shoot for you for $125, but if you want to take care of it yourself, be my guest" and not only that, the jerk still does not send me an invoice like I requested! And I am no dummy....that price he gave me is what is right off the bikeisland site. Wasnt the point of my email to get a discounted no-fault warranty price?
I still like my BD bike, but geez they really know how to piss off a customer.
I look into it, and the manufacturer of the wheel has a no fault warranty. All I need is an invoice for the purchase and I can get a new wheel at 75% off. Mind you, I already spent the next few days retruing the wheel myself but am curious what the cost will be. (Wheel is fine now, but i dont expect it to last as long as an uncrashed wheel would)
I email BD saying my VueltaXRP super lite rear wheel is f-ed and need an invoice for a warranty claim.
7 days later they respond, "oh, we would be able to honor that warranty for you as we are a Vuelta dealer. What wheel do you need?"
"VueltaXRP super lite rear wheel" (uh, thought I already told you)
Two and a half weeks go by with no response. I get annoyed and say "hey, just send me an invoice like I initially asked for"
I then get a snotty reply saying "the wheels are on back order, but I was about to pull a wheel off a bike in for a photo shoot for you for $125, but if you want to take care of it yourself, be my guest" and not only that, the jerk still does not send me an invoice like I requested! And I am no dummy....that price he gave me is what is right off the bikeisland site. Wasnt the point of my email to get a discounted no-fault warranty price?
I still like my BD bike, but geez they really know how to piss off a customer.
Wow...
I have a stash of posts like these...I whip them out whenever a customer walks in with the sheaf of papers of pretty pictures of bikes from these guys.
Never lost a sale yet.
At the end of the day, there are more people that want personalized service and want to deal with a person and take a bike issue, especially warranty items, back to a person they can talk to.
Then, some are strictly price buyers. Generally, one does not get outstanding serivce at a bottom dollar price.
06-26-08, 04:01 PM
#54
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Those businesses are all going concerns that have built and maintained their reputations over decades and are, in many cases, still run by the same families that established them. They aren't some random marketer with a checkbook and a box of decals.
06-26-08, 04:09 PM
#55
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Responsible businesses with a reputation to protect will often send employees of their own to contract manufacturing sites to make sure the contractor meets specifications, quality requirements and schedules. This isn't as much of an issue if you're merely an importer since you can just retire any decals that get associated with problems and label the next batch with new ones.
06-26-08, 04:20 PM
#56
The Truth
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Notice how I am not whining nearly as a tenth as much as you do when someone picks on your bike.
You need to get some perspective.
06-26-08, 04:30 PM
#57
Peloton Shelter Dog
I buy from my LBS. I bought from BD. For the money I saved on my Fly Ti, I could buy 10+ new wheels and still be way, way, WAY ahead financially. And I love the bike. So it can work. Depends on the customer, depends on the bike. My next bike will probably be a Cdale from the LBS.
06-26-08, 04:40 PM
#58
South Carolina Ed
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They don't do this with any other of their brands, probably because the set-ups and tooling can be expensive for limited production runs. You don't know anything about manufacturing do you?
Apparently BD just skips the Italian middlemen and passes on the savings.
You might be interested in Road Bike Action magazine. It's had a number of articles about change in what's left of the Italian bike industry and its flight to A S I A.
06-26-08, 07:36 PM
#60
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It's more definitive than your guesses.
More guessing. It's just paint. And yes, I do know something about manufacturing.
BD wants you to think they are authorized resellers and not just relablers and you want to think so, so you make up rationalizations for them. It's a nice setup. And that's kind of the point with BD, isn't it? You never know exactly what you're getting and they're never quite upfront about it. There's a constant shell game about who they are and what they are doing. You get some insight if you're weenie enough to hang out on BF, but if you're a n00b just looking for a deal, it's easy to get fooled.
Tell me something I don't know.
And what else do they skip? What other corners do they cut? Any more guesses?
BTW, didn't they used to have a Bottecchia USA web site? They don't seem to have any Bots on their bd.com website any more either. What happens if there's a warranty issue? Will they tell you they are no longer a distributer and refer you to Bottecchia Italy? More stuff to guess about.
BD wants you to think they are authorized resellers and not just relablers and you want to think so, so you make up rationalizations for them. It's a nice setup. And that's kind of the point with BD, isn't it? You never know exactly what you're getting and they're never quite upfront about it. There's a constant shell game about who they are and what they are doing. You get some insight if you're weenie enough to hang out on BF, but if you're a n00b just looking for a deal, it's easy to get fooled.
But their products are being made in Asia by Asians and Asians make good bicycles without Italians. Italians go to Asia to make their best bicycles - get it - A S I A? Italian bike families want to make money so they pay A S I A N bike experts to help them do what they cannot do for themselves. They too have become marketeers of A S I A N bikes. It's not just about the high euro or labor rates in Italy, its about T E C H N O L O G Y and E X P E R T I S E.
And what else do they skip? What other corners do they cut? Any more guesses?
BTW, didn't they used to have a Bottecchia USA web site? They don't seem to have any Bots on their bd.com website any more either. What happens if there's a warranty issue? Will they tell you they are no longer a distributer and refer you to Bottecchia Italy? More stuff to guess about.
06-26-08, 07:39 PM
#61
Peloton Shelter Dog
06-26-08, 07:45 PM
#62
Peloton Shelter Dog
But it could be considerably dicier for the noobie. At the same times I still think 70-80% of those mostly likely to order the wrong size, have a hassle figuring out how to unpack and assemble a crated bike etc. will still be happy with their BD purchase. If you're experienced like many of the buyers from BF, the satisfaction rate will be much higher.
The potential to piss off customers is always there in a mail order enterprise, but with something like a bicycle that is exponentially higher. If you can't see it in person or particularly MAKE SURE IT FITS there's a consistent chance it may disappoint. I'd consider a customer satisfaction rate of 80%+ in BD's business very good, all things considered.
06-26-08, 07:51 PM
#63
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Not really. My experience with BD couldn't have been more straightforward, transparent, and ultimately satisfying, in large part because the product matched the web site's description rather exactly. But I've been doing this a very long time, knew what would fit me, anticipated the pitfalls of buying a bike on line (yes it did take some part swapping and some LBS adjustment after the bike arrived). But ultimately I'm thrilled.
But it could be considerably dicier for the noobie. At the same times I still think 70-80% of those mostly likely to order the wrong size, have a hassle figuring out how to unpack and assemble a crated bike etc. will still be happy with their BD purchase. If you're experienced like many of the buyers from BF, the satisfaction rate will be much higher.
The potential to piss off customers is always there in a mail order enterprise, but with something like a bicycle that is exponentially higher. If you can't see it in person or particularly MAKE SURE IT FITS there's a consistent chance it may disappoint. I'd consider a customer satisfaction rate of 80%+ in BD's business very good, all things considered.
But it could be considerably dicier for the noobie. At the same times I still think 70-80% of those mostly likely to order the wrong size, have a hassle figuring out how to unpack and assemble a crated bike etc. will still be happy with their BD purchase. If you're experienced like many of the buyers from BF, the satisfaction rate will be much higher.
The potential to piss off customers is always there in a mail order enterprise, but with something like a bicycle that is exponentially higher. If you can't see it in person or particularly MAKE SURE IT FITS there's a consistent chance it may disappoint. I'd consider a customer satisfaction rate of 80%+ in BD's business very good, all things considered.
06-26-08, 07:53 PM
#64
Peloton Shelter Dog
06-27-08, 04:07 AM
#66
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I buy from my LBS. I bought from BD. For the money I saved on my Fly Ti, I could buy 10+ new wheels and still be way, way, WAY ahead financially. And I love the bike. So it can work. Depends on the customer, depends on the bike. My next bike will probably be a Cdale from the LBS.
My point is that I doubt you'd buy your primary road bike off the net. And that's pretty much what we see in a shop that is doing millions in bike sales. When we see a Moto, or whatever, come in for service or a build (one is in service now), it's a generally a new or very recreational rider that is only looking at price and knows little else. There's a Moto 700 HT MTB that we built...to call that a +$1,000 bike given the frame...there's a lot of chuckling going on. "Advanced aluminum frame" or so it says in the website. That bike IS the price that's being charged.
Bottom line, there's lot's of different types of customers and many different types of distribution channels and everyone is free to select what they want.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 06-27-08 at 04:10 AM.
06-27-08, 04:10 AM
#67
Peloton Shelter Dog
I understand...I guess that, if I interpreted your many comments on the MTB correctly, this was a fun bike, you went for it because you'd had ti before, this was a "deal", this is not your preferred type of riding, and it's a "fun" knockaround bike. So, if you were a serious MTB'er, my guess is that you'd have looked at a dual suspension bike at the LBS. I had a MTB, that I EP'd (employee purchase), rode it for a while and gave it to my nephew.
My point is that I doubt you'd buy your primary road bike off the net. And that's pretty much what we see in a shop that is doing millions in bike sales. When we see a Moto, or whatever, come in for service or a build (one is in service now), it's a generally a new or very recreational rider that is only looking at price and knows little else. There's a Moto 700 HT MTB that we built...to call that a +$1,000 bike given the frame...there's a lot of chuckling going on. "Advanced aluminum frame" or so it says in the website.
Bottom line, there's lot's of different types of customers and many different types of distribution channels and everyone is free to select what they want.
My point is that I doubt you'd buy your primary road bike off the net. And that's pretty much what we see in a shop that is doing millions in bike sales. When we see a Moto, or whatever, come in for service or a build (one is in service now), it's a generally a new or very recreational rider that is only looking at price and knows little else. There's a Moto 700 HT MTB that we built...to call that a +$1,000 bike given the frame...there's a lot of chuckling going on. "Advanced aluminum frame" or so it says in the website.
Bottom line, there's lot's of different types of customers and many different types of distribution channels and everyone is free to select what they want.
06-27-08, 04:19 AM
#68
Peloton Shelter Dog
By the way, it all depends on the frame. The sound I heard at my LBS when I brought the Fly Ti in for a couple of tweaks wasn't chuckling. More like jaws bouncing off the floor when they heard the price. That Taiwan sourced 3.2/2.5 butted Ti frame is a gem.
06-27-08, 06:34 AM
#69
South Carolina Ed
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Much less so than the Bottecchia legally sold and bought here in the USA that's in my garage right now.
Make me laugh again. I'm a consulting ME that does industrial and manufacturing process optimization for a living, and have for 27 years - light metals, composites, chemicals, polymers, oil & gas production, electronics, environmental, energy. Trust me, it's not your long suit, but neither is objectivity.
I've bought 2 bikes from them and got E X A C T L Y what I expected. I read the complete spec sheets they provide before I bought. Have you ever bought a bike from them? - NO
I have - lots.
N O T H I N G on the bikes I purchased. Have you ever bought a bike from them? - NO
There's a guy named Buddy that recently posted about a problem he had with his CF Bottecchia and BD fixed it pronto - it's why he posted - to state that he was happy. Apart from the dérailleur cable I had to replace and having to clean it up once in a while, my Bottecchia has been perfect. It has a very smooth ride and I really like the Record group and the Vuelta Superlight wheel set. For $1500 it was a no-brainer. My son has stolen it so I am now stuck on an old Italian boutique bike called a Viner that I built up over the spring with classic Ebay Campy and tubulars. Like Buddy, I'm happy.
Have you ever bought a bike from them? - NO. Who's the speculator here?
I have - lots.
BTW, didn't they used to have a Bottecchia USA web site? They don't seem to have any Bots on their bd.com website any more either. What happens if there's a warranty issue? Will they tell you they are no longer a distributer and refer you to Bottecchia Italy? More stuff to guess about.
Have you ever bought a bike from them? - NO. Who's the speculator here?
06-27-08, 08:51 AM
#70
Peloton Shelter Dog
This thread is shill vs. shrill.
And while its all rather shilly I still remain shrilled with my BD purchase.
And while its all rather shilly I still remain shrilled with my BD purchase.
06-27-08, 09:00 AM
#71
South Carolina Ed
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06-27-08, 02:04 PM
#72
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Regarding the comment on "cut corners," I have to say that on a $400 bike I expected some cut corners; however, I was only disappointed with one: the brake pads. I understand that stock brake pads are often pretty bad, but the brake pads on my Motobecane physically melted into a filthy black goop the first time I rode in the rain. It was terrifying. Surprisingly, I'm actually quite content with the $100 stock wheelset.
06-27-08, 02:07 PM
#73
Peloton Shelter Dog
I expected those Vuelta Team wheels on the Fly Ti to be cheesy. But they're fine. They look a bit cheapo compared with the rest of the bike, but after pounding the crap out of them in the woods a few times, they seem very capable. They're certainly very light. I was going to upgrade them, but I'm pretty happy with the Vueltas so far. I do understand experiences with BD can vary, but if you were in my shoes you'd be a happy camper. Just loving that MTB so far, it really has exceeded my expectations.
06-27-08, 04:39 PM
#74
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Make me laugh again. I'm a consulting ME that does industrial and manufacturing process optimization for a living, and have for 27 years - light metals, composites, chemicals, polymers, oil & gas production, electronics, environmental, energy. Trust me, it's not your long suit, but neither is objectivity.
Aside from your resume, incorrect.
All in all, this is a classic BD fan response. Lots of irrelevancies and either evasion or confusion about what is actually at issue followed by conclusions based on statistically insignificant samples.
I don't know what BD's quality failure rate is, and how it compares to the rest of the market and neither do you. I do know that they get regular complaints about their service here and elsewhere on the net and that they've earned an "unsatisfactory" rating from the Better Business Bureau.
I also know that their marketing and business model directly targets users who don't know better but might have a familiarity with the brands they use. Those users aren't likely to be the best judges of fit and finish and are being set up for a disappointment.
Now all that may be fine for experienced riders who know exactly what they need, but I find the constant shell games and general lack of honesty inherent in their business model to be sufficient to make me steer away. I don't trust them. YMMV.
06-27-08, 06:50 PM
#75
Fred-ish
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1. Ignorance plain and simple - many are just not bright enough to understand that there is no "magic" in bicycles. They are an assembly of components, most of which are identical across many bicycle brands. They've drank the koolaid of glossy ads in bike magazines and gladly pay for that marketing expense.
2. Rationalizing why they spent too much money for too little value. It's particularly tough for them when they fancy themselves as knowledgeable about the subject.
3. They have a vested interest in traditional brick and mortar shops - either owners, workers or buddies - and they hide behind fake names to spread misinformation.
A simple measure of credibility is if the writer has any first hand experience. If they don't, they are simply one of the many "internot experts" that are not worth reading.