What is more important, frame or component group????
 

I have been on both sides of the fence on this one depending upon the frame material. But with the advent of carbon fiber frames, there seems to be a narrowing of the differences between companies. No longer can companies make claims of how their process is better than the others because they are farming out their production to the many of the same factories. The only main difference is in their marketing.

Litespeed would be criticized in the past for tube shaping and manipulation of titanium as "pure hype" but in retrospect, they were pioneers. It separated them from the others but now with carbon fiber, frames seem more alike than different. When I see a lot of carbon complete bikes for sale, when you factor in the group, wheelset and controls, it seems like many bike companies are almost giving the frame away.

Colorado Cyclist for example had a $4k Douglas Matrix with Dura Ace 7800 on clearance for $2k. The new Matrix is built up with Dura Ace 7900 and expensive 3t carbon bars, stem and seatpost for $3200. My point is that with frames made by Pedal Force and the Matrix etc, it seems like the frame is secondary and where companies seem to be able to cut their prices dramatically.

So if I am in the market for a new bike, I almost think it is more important to get a bike that is putting more emphasis on the components rather than a disposable frame. That Matrix at CC is almost worth buying for $3200 just for the Dura Ace 7900 on it. I could ride that bike with the Eastons it comes with and swap everything onto my frame of choice in a year or so rather than dropping say over $5-6k on a comparably equiped Look or Parlee. With this economy, I say we see Cervelos, Looks, Colnagos at DEEP DISCOUNT by the end of 2009. So I will wait.

If you are going to get a plastic frame, that is the RIGHT attitude to be setting out with.

Unless you are an aesthetics wh0re (like me), components are more important. If I were just getting into cycling [or maybe getting back into], I would probably get an $800 Pedal Force frameset and throw on the nicest groupset I could afford. Wheels are an area where you can actually spend less and get more as well. Build a set of wheels with some Campy Record, Dura Ace or DT Swiss 240s hubs and Mavic Open Pro rims and they will likely be better than most machined wheels. I agree with BM; RIGHT attitude to be setting out with.

+1.

I like a CF with CAMPY GRUPPOS.

A friend at work got a Pedal Force RS2 and put Sram Red on it and the thing is under 16lbs. It looks as well made as most other carbon frames. In fact, the finish was flawless with no air bubbles or imperfections which I have seen on $5k Madones and Cervelos in shops. Plus that frame has been reviewed positively on professional sites.

Seems like there is so much more interpretation in the cost and quality of a frame whereas the quality of group like the new Dura Ace 7900 is unquestionable. That Matrix on CC seems no worse than the Titus they sell or a Giant, Time, Cervelo etc etc.

Looking good. Looking good is far more important.

When I build my "race" bike this winter, it's probably going to be a Pedal Force or CAAD9 frame with good components. My other bikes are for my own enjoyment. I want to be able to race without the fear of crashing one of my "nice" bikes. My DA 7800 will probably be my race components of choice: Less setup and maintenance hassle, durable, great shift quality, etc.

Beyond a well-spent $1500 for a bike it's 99%+ rider.

I think there needs to be some balance between the two. I wouldn't get a big-box Wal-Mart Cromoly frame and put DA on it! Likewise if you got a really nice frame like a Cervelo R3 or a Specialized Tarmac and you mounted the "bottom of the heap" Shimano 2200 group, you may need to get your head checked.

With that said, I personally go for better components. Why? Better gruppo usually equates to lighter weight, better shifting performance, and all around nicer builds. That dictates on how enjoyable the ride is because if you really think about it, the gruppo is what you are interfacing on a constant basis and you will be depending on it to shift properly when you need it to. I agree that Taiwanese made frames with the likes of BD or Pedal Force are great quality and when paired with a nice gruppo, it can rival brand name bikes that costs thousands more.

Crappy shifting makes me very angry.

It really depends what type of feedback you want. Carbon will for sure provide better feedback but aluminum frame will provide significant feedback such as the caad 9 or for example an allez elite, I will be riding my 08 allez elite today because I left my 555 in SD. However, if you are harsh on riding such as shifting, better component maybe the better choice. Such as slugging it up a mountain at 8mph and coming out of the saddle and shifting.

+1

find a new mechanic.

I had mixed matched (SRAM of different gens, Shimano RD with Campagnolo shifters) components and they shift fine, spot on for each cog. I've also ridden Sora, Tiagra, and 105 to see what the negativity was all about, there was none, it shifts fine. Makes me think I'm spoiled with Ultegra.

Crappy shifting is what the assembler and adjuster makes of the equipment, often it's not the fault of the equipment.

What?! My Wal-Mart training bike shouldn't have Ultegra components? :D

One other thing not mentioned (but perhaps implied by frame?) -- fit!

A well-fitted bike, with excellent wheels, is pretty hard to beat. If you then add (say) even 105, you'll arguably have a great ride.

Engine is more important

You can change components on a whim, but you can't change a good frame on a whim: (these are not mine)

http://www.spectrumpowderworks.com/s...ames/bp651.jpghttp://www.spectrumpowderworks.com/s...ames/bp594.jpg

^^ so what you're saying is that fancy lugs make for a better ride?

I think the OP posed a fair question if one is buying a carbon bike. In that case, with a disposable frame, then you'd be much better off investing in wheels and components.

The OP's post made me realize that disposable CF frames have turned the bike purchase decision upside down. When I first started cycling, frames were forever. (Note the great pictures of the lugged frames, above). Components were expendable and disposable. Now (for CF frames at least) the reverse is true.

IMO

1. Power Meter
2. Well fitted frame
3. Wheels
4. Components

Obviously the larger your budget is, the more you can spend, however what you get ultimately depends on what you want out of it.

So what do you want out of it?

OH heck no. We know that expensive Carbon Fiber and 11 speed drivetrain makes a person faster!
(steel with or without fancy lugs do have a better ride)

Powermeter is unnecessary. OP has said nothing about racing, even if the OP does, powermeter is optional, but not a necessity.

+1 on that. Power meter did seem like an odd choice. Maybe "body" should be #1.

I should have been more specific. My bikes all shift flawlessly. I'm more talking about riding other bikes in a pinch; whether you rent one or borrow one.

For example: I was at my parents' house last winter and was really trying to stick with a strict cycling program. My coach scheduled a ride and my only option was my Dad's Sora/Tiagra-equipped Specialized Sequoia (We're roughly the same height). It hadn't had an adjustment in who knows how long. Long story short, I was constantly between gears and throwing the chain. It was a very frustrating ride. Consequently, I hate crappy shifting. :thumb: