I've been experimenting with different fore/aft seat adjustments lately. I had been trying to get all of the weight off my hands by moving the seat aft, all the way to about 4 inches behind KOPS. It worked as far as removing weight from the hands, but cost too much in terms of power. Now I'm back to KOPS, and feel like I can really create more power, especially when climbing. I'm going on a longer ride (about 70 miles) tomorrow, to see how the hands feel.

Has anybody else tried getting that far aft? It felt like my body's CG was right over the BB. Now it feels like it's more over the pedal as I'm pushing downward, which I think is where the extra power is coming from.

Thoughts on KOPS?....misunderstood by many; overrated by the rest.

To get weight off your hands, raise your stem and/or shorten your reach. Both move your center of gravity rearward. KOPS is a good starting point, that's it.

I've tried different positions on the pedals and KOPS works fine, but it might be different for others so it's good as a starting point to getting your fit right.

As mentioned above, it sounds like your saddle position isn't causing the hand pressure, but rather your bar position. Shorter stem and possibly higher bars.

I thought the accepted wisdom was to separate saddle adjustment from hand adjustments. In other words, find the position (probably slightly behind KOPS) that is the best compromise between power and load on your knees. THEN sort out reach and bar position so that at the effort you want to cycle at the weight on your hands is minimised.

^ I would agree with that.

To answer your question regarding trying different KOPS positions, I've tried up to maybe 2" behind KOPS to 1.5" in front. I've found that there are a few positions that work for me when combined with adjusting the saddle height, and I tinker with the setup during the course of the year and the type of ride. In other words, sometimes I'll move the saddle back and down, especially if I'm going to be doing some heavy climbing, front and up if on the flats and perhaps a shorter ride.

I'd agree with the others on your fit issues, though. Get your seat position down first, adjust your handlebar height up and/or back to get some pressure off your hands and arms.

It's a long article, but if you slog thru it, you will be rewarded in much better understanding of how bike and the ride fit togehter:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

Anybody remember Steve Bauer and his custom extreme rearward position bike? I seem to recall he said it was because he has long femurs.

Anyway, consider a recumbent. Where's KOPS on that?

It becomes obvious that KOPS is merely a rule of thumb to get most riders pretty close to the torso / hip / thigh / leg angles that over time have been evolved to work pretty well.

A line can be drawn perpendicular to the crankarm and through the knee joint on a recumbent too. That's all KOP is. It has nothing to do with gravity. A plumb line is an easy way to construct a perpendicular line to a horizontal crank.

One a road bike, I worry more about rider balance over the saddle and minimizing the weight on my hands than KOP. Bike front/rear weight balance is important if you do any serious cornering. I like to see 42-45% of the weight on the front.

What do you mean by load on your knees? I haven't seen fore/aft position affect how my knees feel. Up/down does affect them.

Saddle height and fore/aft are coupled, moving it back increases height. It should be lowered a bit to restore your height setting, unless you need to change the height for a purpose, like you say.

shouldnt try to steal my crops....

later.

My saddle is as far back as possible while keeping my thighs from hitting my chest in a full aero tuck.

There is nothing magical about the 3:00 pedal position. Basically all you are doing is rotating your body around your crank. If you are bent over very far like in a TT position with your back literally horizontal, your saddle should be forward enough to keep your thighs from hitting your chest, which might bring your knee forward of the pedal in the 3:00 position. In a more classic road cycling position, your saddle should be further back, putting your knee directly over or behind the pedal.

Since I was tooling around on the rollers this evening in a hotel room and didn't have much else to do, I took some pics to see where my new position puts me relative to KOPS. Looks pretty close... but I side more forward in the saddle when riding hard.

^^^^what ya got in the Whole Foods bag?

later.

Ooh, let's play a guessing game. I'll go with Clif Bars and bananas.

I wonder how one can get 4 inches behind KOPS on a road bike. Does the bike have a 68* STA? Are you using a seatpost with a huge amount of setback and the saddle slammed all the way back? I don't think I could get near 4 inches behind KOPS on either of my bikes.

Holy cow! 4 inches behind? That's a good setup for a beach cruiser. How much weight do you need to get off your hands? A good road bike setup is all about a good balance between weight fore and aft. One problem with being so far behind is that no matter what you do with your handlebars, you will have to bend over too sharply at the waist to ride comfortably, plus, you will have so much of your weight on your behind that anything you gain for your hands you will lose for your butt. You have to take these things you read about having the saddle all the way back with a grain of salt.

It sounds like you need to get your bike fit on with a good bike fitter. You may try lowering your bars a bit and staying with KOPS and that should help relieve some pressure off your hands. I know it sounds off, but it works. I did this with a guy who always complained of too much pressure on his hands, and now he feels so comfortable on the bike. But seriously, pay the money and get a fit.

Peanut Butter Buzz Crunch maybe?

later.

Answered in my fit thread...

don't let the whole foods bag fool you. It probably is a front for snickers bars and captain crunch cereal. He doesn't eat the peanut butter crunch do to the salmonella scare....

Wow must be nice to take the rollers and bike wherever you go....

this is interesting - I tried it and it works well.
https://peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm