Originally Posted by chipcom

The dick is one who is only worried about saving their own time, with little regard for the time of others. When you started your job, did you ask your boss about all manner of things before consulting the employee manual, to 'save time'? Do you ask the counter person at McDonald's to read the menu for you to 'save time'?

I think the dick is in your mirror.

Originally Posted by chipcom

Not hardly, but of course after a few weeks you're a BF expert and know everything there is to know about the culture here, so I guess I shouldn't correct you after all. Carry on, turkey.

Originally Posted by malevolentoilet

Oh yeah, carry on turkey. Am I doing this right?

Originally Posted by chipcom

Question (open to everyone): Would you utilize FAQ or Wiki type info to seek answers to your basic questions if one were available?

Originally Posted by chipcom

What you think and the history of forums, chats, discussion groups, BBs and newsgroups don't seem to jibe. What was outlined is common and hardly negative.

Many of us love answering questions...but that is NOT why we come here. We come here to spend some time with friends talking about a common passion - cycling. So while we don't mind answering questions as we do that, answering the same old questions, asked thousands of times before, by people who are so needy that they can't be bothered to do a simple search, gets old fast. Road Forum Regs love helping those who take at least some minimal effort to help themselves....not so much for lazy people who want their hands held while taking warm showers and singing Kumbaya.

Originally Posted by chipcom

No, it's about people taking responsibility and not cluttering up the forums because they are too lazy to do a little homework.

If experienced people just ignored the threads with questions asked a million times, then the noob questions wouldn't get answered...or they would get answered by some know-it-all show-off who wants to feel important, but really doesn't know what he/she is talking about. Then of course noobs who DO take the time to do a search find these threads with the BS answers (or with the resulting flame wars because someone called them on it) and the incorrect answers get perpetuated as fact...and in some cases get somebody hurt. (think A&S topics) This is not what we want. The vast majority of experienced members don't mind helping people with their questions....as long as the people with the questions make it a little easier on them by doing a little homework on their own first.

It's about good manners being a two-way street...if you want to be treated with respect and get answers to your questions, have some respect for the people you are asking and do a little research on your own first. Google, if not our native search, is your friend...as are threads like SB started here that...albeit perhaps in a condensed version.

Question (open to everyone): Would you utilize FAQ or Wiki type info to seek answers to your basic questions if one were available?

Originally Posted by malevolentoilet

The guy asking a question is a dick?

Originally Posted by malevolentoilet

Cluttering up forums? This is not SOSH.

If you don't want to be helpful, don't click the link and let somebody else do it.

Originally Posted by malevolentoilet

Search isn't always helpful. Information can be dated or the question isn't answered satisfactorily. If you don't like a thread don't read it or report it to a moderator and let them handle it as they see fit.

God forbid the question askers - people who want to learn - somehow slow down your optimum forum experience. Good ****ing lord.

Originally Posted by chipcom

Hey Mr. Efficiency...what takes more time....typing couple of keywords into a box and pressing a button, and getting tons of possible answers instantly....or typing out a question that is somewhat understandable, clicking a button, then waiting for minutes, hours, days for responses that may or may not address the question and may or may not be correct?

Originally Posted by chipcom

For someone who's time is so valuable, you sure seem willing to waste it for the sake of your vanity.

Originally Posted by malevolentoilet

From experience, the search here does not answer even the simplest questions well. You've made some interesting assumptions about the magic of search. And you haven't addressed the stale information problem. An answer from 2007 is not necessarily the same as an answer from 2009, depending on the question.



Yeah, this doesn't follow from anything as I'm hardly vain. Try again.

It blows my mind that there even exists hostility towards people who ask questions and try to get something right before they do it. It is exactly the right thing to do. Learning does not take place in a vacuum for anybody except for agoraphobics and autodidacts.

Originally Posted by Tulex

Chip, your idea is that people are going to find better answers by doing a bunch of searching first. There is just as much a likelihood that people are going to get bad answers or advice off of this forum as they would from hacks here. Look at how that youtube video got posted on here of the dude that was trying to educate some people. People ripped into him for multiple reasons, his having some stuff wrong just part of it. That's just one example. There is a lot of conflicting info to be found, even in old posts here.

Yes, doing a search is going to benefit the person with the question in many instances. I still don't see how his not doing so could have a negative affect on me. Well, other than it saddens the heart to see hateful replies.

Originally Posted by x136

I've done some cleaning in this thread. Let's keep it civil, hmm?

Originally Posted by chipcom

The fact that people are lazy, ignorant or both doesn't bother me...I am all of those...it's the sense they feel entitled to others doing all of the work for them is what irks me personally.

Originally Posted by genie

It appears that what really irks you is that some choose not to do things the way you want them to, compelling you to label them as lazy, ignorant, or self-entitled. In reality, there's no way for you to know why someone decides not to do a search before posting a question, and the reasons could be numerous.

Let it be, chipcom. To some, an attempt to make the visitors to this forum conform to an arbitrary set of procedures on how to post is nothing more than a veiled attempt at censorship—let's weed out those who don't do things like us.

Freedom of expression is the ultimate good. Let everyone have it in any way wanted.

Originally Posted by chipcom

Sorry but that is a load of crap. How hypocritical can you get...you try to silence me in one breath then scream about censorship and freedom of expression in the next?

I don't care what one's reasons are, I, and others, are just asking for the same manners and respect from you noobs before asking a question that you expect from us when answering. If you don't want to do so, fine...but then don't get your panties in a bunch when people treat you with the same lack of consideration. THAT is freedom of expression.

Originally Posted by genie

chipcom, chipcom, you need to go out for a ride!

But this time, please attach a saddle to that seatpost, eh?

Originally Posted by chipcom

Tell you what Tulex, malevolentoilet and anyone else who feels that I and others are being such dicks. We're gonna leave it up to you to show us how it's done. We'll be monitoring your progress promptly, accurately and courteously answering questions from all comers in the Road forum. You know how to do it better...fine...time to show us, rather than tell us.

The ball is in your court...we're eagerly anticipating you wowing us with your brilliance.

Originally Posted by chipcom

...it's the sense they feel entitled to others doing all of the work for them is what irks me personally.

Originally Posted by DScott

In the real world, don't you think as noobs we should think once or twice before asking the experienced folks our questions? It's just a matter of a little respect. It's not about control, at all.

Would you run up to the seasoned vets on a group ride and ask "what bike should I get?" without introducing yourself, maybe giving a little of your riding background, or even just thinking through and focusing your question so it's not a waste of time for the people you're asking to help you?

Maybe you don't care that you come off as a self-centered dumb****. Me, I'd be embarrassed to act that way. The fact that it's the internet doesn't stop that from happening if you don't do your part.

Originally Posted by chipcom

It blows my mind how someone who has made like 11 posts since 2006...few of them anywhere near helpful or answering someone's question, feels compelled to preach.

If you would like actually read this thread you might discover some helpful search hints...like Google...but I guess an old internet hand like you would know that.

I'm sorry that you are not very resourceful and have to have someone to lead you by the hand, but not as sorry as you are that a dick like me has to do it for you.