Cue

Incorrect. You can bash brand A and you can also bash lemmings who love brand A products.

patentcad

No, it is you who are Incorrect.

I am afraid I have to pull rank on you. As Pope of BF, my Incorrect supercedes your Incorrect.

Don't make me Excommunicate you.

Cue

"You're wrong, because I said you're wrong, waa!"

I last heard that from my nephew. Such old grade school tactic.

patentcad

Is he related to you? The Excommunication would apply to all family members too you know.

Lazyrider

Who knows because the prices of all these "Italian" companies that moved their production to China actually raised their prices. This, despite significant reduction in labor. Profit margins only have increased for these companies.

Like I said in past, would you pay a million $ for a Ferrari Enzo if it were made in China? Some of you guy's will bulL#$#$ me and say yes, but if you actually had the scratch to collect them, you'd know to start buying up the models made in Italy now cuz their values will increase exponentially. The only benefit to the move to China with all these CF frames is for the company as they don't seem to be passing on any savings to us.

sheddle

Boy, I sure am mad about all these bicycles!

bikeybikebike

it's MSG

scr660

The debate is not about costs, which are obviously less in China, but the increase in consumer surplus (and reduction in market price), which Lazyrider presumes doesn't exist.

rollin

Infallibility must be a heavy cross to bear your Eminence.

roadwarrior

You mean the one that reduces taxes and gives money back to the citizens of that state? Versus the one you live in?

What's the difference between NY and the Titanic?

The Titanic had a band.

botto 

wrong forum. take it to here.

Grumpy McTrumpy

The bandleader was a real prick, so he kept making the guys play 2-beat all night.

As the water started coming in, and the people started screaming and running out of the room, the bandleader says to the guys "keep playing!"

As the water rises to reach the stage the bandleader says again "keep playing!"

As the water finally started to rise to their knees, the bass player looks over at the drummer and says "screw it, I'm going to 4"

(if you got this one, you might be a musician)

roadwarrior

Trek was started by a guy in a barn in Wisconsin. Started "out of nothing".

Cannondale was started by a couple of guys who didn't even begin with bike manufacturing. In a barn. The name came from the train station when Montgomery was on the phone trying to get money.

Serotta has the name of the owner on every downtube that comes out of a shop with 30 frame builders...

There are a number of companies that can make that claim.

And if you look at things like pressed internal bearing BB's (BB30 style) integrated headsets, tapered steering tubes, etc...those innovations did not come from the engineers at Cervelo.

They are nice bikes. Da Vinci does not work there.

Grumpy McTrumpy

roadwarrior

Look at the post to which this was a response. Then get back to me.

DrPete 

I'm not saying there are no other companies like it... I just like 'em.

Longfemur

It's just too easy to make fun of people who know nothing about bicycles. Cervelo and other similar companies are successful only because so many newbies buy their overpriced bikes. They want to be the fastest guy out there, because riding for them is passing dudes and not being passed. So they buy the bike that has the fastest image. It might be a Cervelo, or it might be any of the other popular names in that market segment.

For many, it's the first and only serious road bike they have ever had. Riding it compared to a hybrid, comfort or mountain bike is a revelation for them, and then they assume it's because of the Cervelo name on the downtube (or substitute Madone, Tarmac, etc.). Then there's the natural tendency to defend to internet death one's own current purchase, no matter what rationalizations have to be employed. Put all that together and you get the basis of 80% of bicycle forums posts on the internet.

Jay-W

Ah, nothing like a plate of patronising to go with a glass of whine.

DrPete 

Don't take this the wrong way, but why on earth do you think you any more of an authority on what people should buy than anyone else? As far as I can tell you do zero racing and just like to make fun of people who enjoy riding racing-oriented bikes. Your opinion is just as valuable or worthless as anyone's. If those defending their purchase are 80% of the posts, you're the 20% they have to defend themselves against.

I don't think that newbies buying expensive stuff are quite as large a market segment as you think, although they certainly do exist. They'll continue to do it, and I'm not sure why anyone would look down on them. I mean, really--who cares if a newbie buys an S3 as their first bike? Why do you have a problem with that? He's happy, the shop's happy, Cervelo's happy, and there's another bike on the road. There is no downside. It even feeds the egos of those who need to ridicule people over the internet for their purchases and feel superior to other riders... Hmm....

As for defending to death my purchase, I know that my P2C isn't the fastest bike out there, but it's a damn nice frame for sub-$2K when you consider its far more expensive alternatives. Is it the be all/end all? Nah, not really. That Scott Plasma LTD and the Pinarello Montello FM1 are some real dream bikes. In the end, the P2C is a solid bike, and a smart buy for someone who wants a higher-end aerodynamic CF frame. And it's been ridden to victory at Kona, arguably the pinnacle of racing against the clock, so to someone on a budget who's looking for a bike that won't hold them back, even from the absolute pinnacle of competition, it's a total "I can no longer blame my bike for anything until I win at IM Kona" type purchase.

Longfemur

You're right. I totally agree with you. My opinion definitely is as worthless as anyone else's on here. That's the nature of internet forums, a greatly expanded version of what in the past might have been water cooler conversation and a bit of friendly ribbing.

I see dozens of Cervelos zipping past me every single day. Man, those things are FAST. Definitely the bike to buy. Just the other day, I thought I was doing as well as I could against a fairly stiff headwind along a waterway. All of a sudden, this young woman with no helmet and not a hint of cycling clothing whizzes past me going the same direction, seemingly immune to the headwind. I can only imagine what she could have done on a Cervelo. Unfortunately, she was riding bolt upright on some kind of hybrid. Poor girl, probably doesn't read Bike Forums or Bicycling magazine. What can you do about people like that? They "just don't get it". They need to get with the consumerist program, because there are a lot of young western marketing whizzes and Chinese industrialists out there who need her cash.

DrPete 

You don't think she would've been faster on a custom lugged steel bike in a more aero position? Or any road bike for that matter? What on Earth does that lady have to do with Cervelo?

scr660

you have better things to do with your time than to argue with this simpleton

DrPete 

It's nice to turn the brain off between cases.

bt

someone swallowed the hook.

BHBiker

By the way....I also like my Tarmac Expert, BH Race1 and Cannondale Six13....they are all nice bikes! Its just that the SLC is my preferred weapon on crits and drop dead bunch rides.

Just saying the SLC is not my first serious roadbike.....