I'm threatened when anyone outperforms me in some way.

My career and interests have always situated me in largely male-dominated fields, so I'm pretty used to the atmosphere one finds in this forum toward women ... that doesn't mean that I like it though. I do agree that I encounter more sexism here than I do in real life, and that raises some interesting questions for me. 1) Are the uncensored thoughts / comments typed here a more accurate reflection of the way that the men I deal with in RL think (in which case, yikes) or 2) Is the locker room ambiance of the road forum bringing forth these comments in a way that, while revealing of lingering cultural stereotypes, isn't "serious"?

In any case it is worth considering that the "we were just kidding" defense with regard to off colour comments doesn't work anymore with regard to race ... perhaps it shouldn't with regard to gender either?

And yes, a big thanks to those men on this forum that continually act with respect toward the female members in particular, and toward females in general. You know who you are, and we all appreciate it.

(That said, I do have thick skin and though I've been wearily disappointed by some of the conduct on this board toward women, I've never yet been truly offended.)

Ok at the risk of being labled an insensitive msyognistic, neandrathal, I'll disagree with that.

Clearly, there are threads from time to time that treat women as sex objects. If those are offensive to you, they are pretty obvious and easy to avoid.

The forum, however, is very deferential to female posters. I do not recall in 4 years, a female poster being abused because she was female. Conversely, I've routinely observed novice women being given much more slack when they make naive posts, than novice men are given with similar posts.

There is definitely an element of irreverence, and sarcasm in the Road Forum that some find offensive. That does not mean however that there is hostility aimed at women posters. Everyone in the Road Forum has to take things with a grain of salt or they are going to be continuously pissed off by somebody about something, regardless of their gender.

Stop making me laugh! This is a serious subject you know.

Check out the official definition of a "Hostile Environment" as it relates to Harassement. I think we're defining it differently and that's why you disagree with me.

But to be fair, the entire forum isn't hostile but certainly many responses and threads can be.

The fact that a woman can ignore/avoid them is not the issue. The problem is that the posts/threads that are clearly disrespectful to women are there at all.

+375 googol

I've been on a lot of group rides where I'm the only girl, and I don't think I've ever seen anybody have any kind of sexist attitude towards me--quite the opposite, actually. Most men have been extremely helpful in improving my riding. Some of them drop me, some of them ride with me, and either way, I'm happy. The ones that drop me only make me want to ride faster, and the ones that don't drop me let me know what I need to do, and encourage me.

Bike Forums (specifically RC) is a different story. I've never felt all that comfortable here, and a lot of it has to do with seeing some of the posts I've seen in here over the last couple of years--I'm sure the vast majority of posters are decent guys, but unfortunately the ones that post the disgustingly offensive comments stick out in my mind more so than any others.

I don't care that some men judge women by the way they look; however, when someone says, "Did she swallow?" or posts a picture of a man slapping a woman, it makes my blood boil--the latter is downright disturbing to see.

How often does that happen? Even in the women's forum, of course we'll respond to a photo of a hot guy, but you'll never see the kind of remarks that are so typical here. (Edit: sorry, didn't realize that was a joke.)

I'm a lawyer, doing labor and employment work. I understand the definition of a hostile workplace environment.

1) This isn't a place of employment; Clearly the standards for what can legally be posted in an office setting, and on an online forum are different;

2) For sexual harrasment based on a hostile workplace environment to be actionable it has to be so severe and pervasive as to alter the fundamental terms of the employment relationship. While there are cleary things posted in the Road Forum, that I would certainly adivse an Employer client not to allow in the workplace, or company emails, I think you'd have a tough case that there is severe and pervasive harrassment of women posters in the Road Forum.

I'd agree with that. However, I think its over the top to contend that the forum taken as a whole is hostile to women.

It's not that the forum (or the road portion of it) is actively hostile to individual female posters, it's that the environment that has been created is latently hostile toward women in general. I lurk here a lot, but I don't post very often as a result of the general attitude displayed on not all, but many, of the threads. I get great info from lurking, but this is not a place that I am 'welcome' to actively participate in.

Agreed completely. However, as one poster said, offensive/objectifying/whatever posts tend to stick out a lot more from the background of "normal" posts. I can understand how seeing those posts, even if it is only occasionally, could contribute to feeling somewhat unwelcome, and could make you wonder about the attitudes/ thoughts of a lot of male posters. And we agree that the forum as a whole is not hostile, but even as a minority of posts/posters, how much hostility is okay?

so this isnt the thread to put up some new and fabulous Liz Hatch pics?

Bingo.

It isn't that there is much (if any) direct hostility toward female posters themselves, it's the nagging sense that if this (offensive posts) is what these people think about me (women), they're really not that open to the idea of having me (a woman) as a participating member (unless I'm hot and post a picture to prove it and am willing to put up with sexual innuendo as an addendum to many of my posts).

My answer was a response to "What prompts someone..."; It was not a justification.

Wow that's horrible to hear.

From the little bit I understand about Randonneuring (mostly from your/mattm's posts), it is not a competitive event.

That's really bad considering that I know/am a part of a couple "racing" clubs that are absoltely welcoming to female members.

However, as a woman, I'd like to hear your opinion on this: would you have issues dating a man whom you outperformed athletically? That's the main issue, or at least what I'm concerned about.

It is true, and unfortunate, that many women in this culture have a strong distaste for anything athletic enough to sweat. I wish we could do something about that, for a variety of reasons.

As a woman, I can tell you I'd have no problem with it at all. Unless he handled it like an idiot. But then the problem isn't with his athletic performance, it's with his attitude.

I think you've nailed it. I, personally, don't feel like anyone has been hostile to me and don't find it all that threatening or hostile here, but I can see how the overall environment would turn some women off to participating. I certainly wouldn't ever feel comfortable posting a photo of myself like some of you guys do!

I do find it interesting, however, that all of the dudes I've met and ridden with from here have been nothing but friendly, polite, encouraging, and all around nice people. I'd be willing to bet that the same would be true for the vast majority of the dudes here were you to meet them in real life. Something about the internet just seems to bring out the jackass in all of us...

PS While we're on the topic, how do I get access to this secret ladies forum I keep hearing about?

One of my issues with the immature/sexist postings is that they discourage women from starting threads dealing with women-specific issues. I recall a thread started a while ago about women's cycling skirts. The very first response was "She said panties." It then degenerated after that and even though other people tried to keep the thread on track, it was pretty much a goner from the beginning.

This is the primary reason why the women's forum exists. I know there are people who say it is not fair for women to have their own forum, but until women can feel free to post women-specific topics without having men derail them, there really isn't any other option. And for those who wonder, there are never any derogatory comments on female issues posted in the women's forum.

True, but this thread is discussing if RC is a hostile post environment, so I was using that to base how I was defining "hostile". And this forum fits. Other women, and men, have agreed with me.

Greater Internet U***wad Theory. Deubfuscate and google.

I believe you have to ask a mod. Not sure how they validate you're a woman, honestly. Maybe they think all the men here are too insecure to pretend to be women to see this secret place.

Ask my husband. He's the first to admit that I'm faster than he is on a bicycle. I'm grateful that he doesn't care, and finds me more attractive because of it.

I have always had a bigger issue when I dated men that were threatened by me. I remember one guy behaving rather poorly when I beat him at a game of tennis on our first (and only) date. Maybe I should have stroked his ego and let him win.

I also was in a serious relationship when I got accepted to graduate school at an Ivy League - he broke up with me because he couldn't handle his gf being "smarter" or "better educated" than he was. The odd thing was that I was the same person before and after getting my acceptance letter, so it was his perception of me, and his fear of other people's perception of him, that changed.

I didn't want to dumb myself down or pretend to be someone other than who I am just so men would date me. Luckily that is no longer an issue. I found a man who accepts me exactly for who I am, encourages me, and doesn't feel remotely threatened by me.

Of course, in many ways I'm not typical so I have no idea if other women would feel the same.

Now that's a signature.