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Hostile Post Environment?

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Hostile Post Environment?

Old 09-17-09, 10:52 PM
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Hostile Post Environment?

In the last day, two of the most popular threads have been closed for creating gender-interest controversy and sexually inappropriate material. Others seem to be heading that way. As a forum who recognizes the want, and need, for more female involvement in our great sport, are we shooting ourselves in the foot by creating forum in which women do not feel comfortable.

DISCUSS:
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Old 09-17-09, 10:55 PM
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We can't help ourselves.

You're in wayyy over your head with this one btw.
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Old 09-17-09, 10:59 PM
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You're new here...

The answer is yes, clearly.

And I agree, it's not good.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:05 PM
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You're new here so you probably don't know ... but it has always been like this. I guess that's what comes of allowing teenagers and college kids into a forum. The youngsters look at women merely as sexual objects ... they don't take women seriously at all. Some, but not all, grow out of that attitude as they become more mature.

And ... I have my doubts that most male road riders (or at least the teenager/college crowd) want more female involvement in our great sport, or care one way or the other. Perhaps the idea of women doing as well or better than them on the bicycle is somehow threatening.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
You're new here so you probably don't know ... but it has always been like this. I guess that's what comes of allowing teenagers and college kids into a forum. The youngsters look at women merely as sexual objects ... they don't take women seriously at all. Some, but not all, grow out of that attitude as they become more mature.

And ... I have my doubts that most male road riders (or at least the teenager/college crowd) want more female involvement in our great sport, or care one way or the other. Perhaps the idea of women doing as well or better than them on the bicycle is somehow threatening.
+1000 for your first paragraph Machka. If I see a thread heading down that path, I'll typically avoid posting in it; I'll bet a lot of guys do the same.

Not so sure I agree with your second point, but maybe that's just me?
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Old 09-17-09, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
You're new here so you probably don't know ... but it has always been like this. I guess that's what comes of allowing teenagers and college kids into a forum. The youngsters look at women merely as sexual objects ... they don't take women seriously at all. Some, but not all, grow out of that attitude as they become more mature.

And ... I have my doubts that most male road riders (or at least the teenager/college crowd) want more female involvement in our great sport, or care one way or the other. Perhaps the idea of women doing as well or better than them on the bicycle is somehow threatening.

Those are some pretty strong generalizations. While I agree that many teenager/college kids may act this way, I would also argue that many teenagers/college kids do NOT act that way or have strong sexist beliefs. Personally, I have seen just about as many grown men with sexist attitudes as I have college age kids or teenagers. But I'm referring to real world experiences here, I tend to stay away from a lot of BF threads so maybe there is a different trend here. I'm also 20 years old, so maybe I'm a little biased on the subject.
Nevertheless, I agree that it (sexism) is unacceptable for any age group, and that there is far too much of it, especially around sports of any kind.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:26 PM
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^^ also true - OK, I fell into the trap, there are many younger posters who are most definitely not in that category.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
You're new here so you probably don't know ... but it has always been like this. I guess that's what comes of allowing teenagers and college kids into a forum. The youngsters look at women merely as sexual objects ... they don't take women seriously at all. Some, but not all, grow out of that attitude as they become more mature.

And ... I have my doubts that most male road riders (or at least the teenager/college crowd) want more female involvement in our great sport, or care one way or the other. Perhaps the idea of women doing as well or better than them on the bicycle is somehow threatening.
Actually no...I'm only responding in this thread because tonight we were getting ready to ride a bandit cross race - my wife was there - and one of the guys mentioned that I should get her riding...

...OK....yeah....he's obviously never been in the situation.

But anyway my response, which surprised me, was, "you know...I kind of need some time to myself and this is my thing." I love and respect my wife and would be amazed and supportive if she was out there tearing it up but I feel that being able to have some quality time away from family and significant others plays more of a role than a fear of being out-ridden.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Beaker View Post
+1000 for your first paragraph Machka. If I see a thread heading down that path, I'll typically avoid posting in it; I'll bet a lot of guys do the same.

Not so sure I agree with your second point, but maybe that's just me?
The second paragraph is born of a very strong feeling (stemming from experiences and comments) I've gotten when I've visited certain bicycle shops and been a member of certain clubs. That having to do anything to cater to a woman (so that she can get what she needs to enjoy the sport of cycling in the shop, or so that she is made to feel welcome in the club) is just an annoying hassle they would rather not deal with.

I'm not sure if it is a "threatened" thing, although that might be part of it. Maybe they have no clue how to talk to women or relate to women, and so if a woman comes into a shop they really don't have the faintest idea what to do with her or what she wants.

Or when it comes to the club thing, when the guys are out there riding on their own, they can be themselves. But if a woman joins the group all of a sudden they feel like they probably should make a few changes to make her comfortable, and they don't want to. They'd rather be just guys like they were before she came along. So instead of trying to get more women in their club, so that the women have the choice of riding with other women or being "one of the guys, they'd rather just get rid of the women all together.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:40 PM
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There are a handful of women that come on the faster rides in town. They pretty much act like "one of the guys" most of the time. One of them has the foulest mouth of any of us

Maybe some shops/groups are hostile to women, but in my experience we don't usually care who you are as long as you aren't dangerous. If you can hang with the group that's a bonus but plenty of people (men and women) get shelled and if you keep coming back week after week that's cool
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Old 09-17-09, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
The youngsters look at women merely as sexual objects ... they don't take women seriously at all. Some, but not all, grow out of that attitude as they become more mature.
I do? That's news to me. Oh, and I *sincerely* apologize for enjoying the sight of a beautiful woman. I'll try to be more gay from now on if it pleases you.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AlexGSU View Post
Those are some pretty strong generalizations. While I agree that many teenager/college kids may act this way, I would also argue that many teenagers/college kids do NOT act that way or have strong sexist beliefs. Personally, I have seen just about as many grown men with sexist attitudes as I have college age kids or teenagers. But I'm referring to real world experiences here, I tend to stay away from a lot of BF threads so maybe there is a different trend here. I'm also 20 years old, so maybe I'm a little biased on the subject.
Nevertheless, I agree that it (sexism) is unacceptable for any age group, and that there is far too much of it, especially around sports of any kind.
Well, it probably is generalizing ... but from my experience the older guys I've known (let's say over 50) have been more gentlemanly than the younger ones I've known. They tend not to go around asking, "Was she hot" first thing when a guy mentions an encounter with a woman.

Of course I am only guessing at the ages here ... I've been assuming that the majority of posters here are very young. But maybe this forum is clogged with a bunch of "dirty old men".
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Old 09-17-09, 11:43 PM
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ughh.. is she hot?
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Old 09-17-09, 11:44 PM
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I was looking at the phrase "most" male riders. There are so many possible scenarios covered by that part of your post that it's unfair to generalize. Psimet's point about "me time" is a good one, but I'm wondering if that's possibly more about family vs non-family time rather than male vs female riders per se (?) Either way, I enjoy rides where we have some male/female balance.


[PS - my thread trainwreck alert has just kicked in]
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Old 09-17-09, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
The second paragraph is born of a very strong feeling (stemming from experiences and comments) I've gotten when I've visited certain bicycle shops and been a member of certain clubs. That having to do anything to cater to a woman (so that she can get what she needs to enjoy the sport of cycling in the shop, or so that she is made to feel welcome in the club) is just an annoying hassle they would rather not deal with.

I'm not sure if it is a "threatened" thing, although that might be part of it. Maybe they have no clue how to talk to women or relate to women, and so if a woman comes into a shop they really don't have the faintest idea what to do with her or what she wants.

Or when it comes to the club thing, when the guys are out there riding on their own, they can be themselves. But if a woman joins the group all of a sudden they feel like they probably should make a few changes to make her comfortable, and they don't want to. They'd rather be just guys like they were before she came along. So instead of trying to get more women in their club, so that the women have the choice of riding with other women or being "one of the guys, they'd rather just get rid of the women all together.

In many of the fast racer-type group rides that I do some impressibly fit and fast women that show up, some more occasionaly than others.

I usually don't think anything of it, unless she's hot (Sorry its true; Im in my 20's and full of testosterone). Especially if she is fast-er or fitt-er than me, i'll probably find her even more attractive.

I also don't feel a need to change the way that I behave either. I don't mind saying things that are slightly slobish or slightly sleezy as long as I conclude that it is not extremely innapropriate.




EDIT: If I was a business (bike shop) owner or even employee, I would treat all of my customers with courtesy and individually regardless of gender because I would want them to spend money.

Sorry about your experiences with the bike clubs. Both clubs that I ride with on a regular basis have females that ride with us on the regular basis and I think I can speak for all of the members when I say it's great to have them around.

One of whom is the owner of the local "elite roadie" shop (which is also a general outdoor-rec store) and she is fit absolutely gracious and almost motherly to me and a number of other male college racer-types. With her shop she sponsors the local club. She gives us free gels, huge discounts, free water bottles and even free bibs/jersey/vest/cap/entire kit whenever we want one.

Not to mention that she is pretty freakin fast, about on par with your average cat4 male.

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Old 09-17-09, 11:49 PM
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So ... why do men treat women like they are just sexual objects? What prompts a guy to say something like, "Was she hot" in response to a thread?
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Old 09-17-09, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Alky View Post
I do? That's news to me. Oh, and I *sincerely* apologize for enjoying the sight of a beautiful woman. I'll try to be more gay from now on if it pleases you.
Interesting....I always thought people went about "being gay" because it "pleased" them...not me.

Originally Posted by Machka View Post
But maybe this forum is clogged with a bunch of "dirty old men".
what do you mean "maybe"?
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Old 09-17-09, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
what do you mean "maybe"?
Is this one place I should have used a more definite term?
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Old 09-17-09, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
Well, it probably is generalizing ... but from my experience the older guys I've known (let's say over 50) have been more gentlemanly than the younger ones I've known. They tend not to go around asking, "Was she hot" first thing when a guy mentions an encounter with a woman.

Of course I am only guessing at the ages here ... I've been assuming that the majority of posters here are very young. But maybe this forum is clogged with a bunch of "dirty old men".
I understand what you are saying. Maybe a lot of that stems from the fact that younger dudes still feel the need to prove themselves and their masculinity, whereas older, more mature men are confident in themselves and don't feel like they have to prove anything. Just remember that while we may be the minority, there are some mature, very gentlemanly younger men out here too
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Old 09-17-09, 11:55 PM
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its all about makeing everything safe and family freindly for all. no one is allowed to be offended.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:55 PM
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I'm too busy posting pictures of mario lopez on a bike. I don't look at him as a sexual object though, just God's art.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:57 PM
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Oh and I was the OP of one of those threads..check the first post:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=585395
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Old 09-17-09, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
I also don't feel a need to change the way that I behave either. I don't mind saying things that are slightly slobish or slightly sleezy as long as I conclude that it is not extremely innapropriate.

Originally Posted by Alky View Post
I do? That's news to me. Oh, and I *sincerely* apologize for enjoying the sight of a beautiful woman. I'll try to be more gay from now on if it pleases you.


You guys are seriously undermining what I'm trying to do here.
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Old 09-18-09, 12:01 AM
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I love and respect my wife and would be amazed and supportive if she was out there tearing it up
I really meant women in general, but it says a lot about the strength of your marriage that she's the only woman you thought about...

Golf clap for Psimet2001

Interesting....I always thought people went about "being gay" because it "pleased" them...not me.
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Old 09-18-09, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by AlexGSU View Post
You guys are seriously undermining what I'm trying to do here.
Get real/Speak for yourself.
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