Hostile Post Environment?
09-18-09 | 06:41 AM
#52
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: BOSTON BABY
That probably depends on how much one has! Here's a very interesting show on testosterone: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radi...spx?sched=1230 (you can listen free on the web - click "full episode" - or download as podcast for a small fee).
In particular, the segment with Griffin Hansbury, a former "radical feminist lesbian," who became a man will be enlightening to any woman out there who wants to learn a little more about what its like to have a bunch of testosterone. I think this should be required listening for every woman!
To give you a little hint about it, there's a part where he's explaining that before testosterone treatments, she (at that point) would be on the subway and see a woman and think, "oh, she's attractive...what's that book she's reading...i'd like to meet her..." a whole narrative would go through her head. After she began taking the testosterone and becoming a male, there was no narritive, no language at all. He'd see a woman with an attractive quality and basically his mind would just be flooded with images of sex! That ladies, is what it's like to be a man!
In particular, the segment with Griffin Hansbury, a former "radical feminist lesbian," who became a man will be enlightening to any woman out there who wants to learn a little more about what its like to have a bunch of testosterone. I think this should be required listening for every woman!
To give you a little hint about it, there's a part where he's explaining that before testosterone treatments, she (at that point) would be on the subway and see a woman and think, "oh, she's attractive...what's that book she's reading...i'd like to meet her..." a whole narrative would go through her head. After she began taking the testosterone and becoming a male, there was no narritive, no language at all. He'd see a woman with an attractive quality and basically his mind would just be flooded with images of sex! That ladies, is what it's like to be a man!
09-18-09 | 06:43 AM
#53
molasses in winter slow
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: NJ
Bikes: '06 Serotta Nove, '04 Mondonico Futura Leggero, '08 Haro Mary SS
It's gonna be a loooooooong winter!
09-18-09 | 06:50 AM
#54
And quite a number of them have expressed to me that when a woman joins their group, they feel as though they have to change their behaviour. They feel like they shouldn't fart, swear, and talk about women we happen to be cycling past or who happen to come into the office or whatever.
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09-18-09 | 06:58 AM
#55
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Joined: Jan 2005
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From: BOSTON BABY
By the way, for those saying that cycling and other sports "will always" be dominated by men: there's no reason that this has to be true unless you want it to be true. Which I suspect is the case, which is sad, but culture will move forward without you. Rowing is a great example of a sport that, in the United States anyway, is near parity. There is nothing organic about male-dominated participation in sports.
Other examples: curling, ice skating (including speed skating), track and field, skiing... all of these sports, if they are not AT parity in competition, are closer to it than cycling is. Why is that? This "sports will always be dominated by men" idea looks a bit weak.
Other examples: curling, ice skating (including speed skating), track and field, skiing... all of these sports, if they are not AT parity in competition, are closer to it than cycling is. Why is that? This "sports will always be dominated by men" idea looks a bit weak.
09-18-09 | 06:59 AM
#56
Nerd
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From: Bordentown NJ
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Interesting subject. Yes, this forum is hostile towards women. Yes, the sport is made up mostly of men, but that doesn't mean that you have to actively chase women away.
I have learned that hot women can get away with all sorts of bad behavior. So thank you, Men of RC, for teaching me that I don't need to be polite anymore (at least not towards men). I've been doing it wrong all these years.
Seriously, though, why do you accept poor behavior from attractive women just because they're attractive? I don't understand this. I don't let a good-looking man get away with crap, just because he's hot.
I have learned that hot women can get away with all sorts of bad behavior. So thank you, Men of RC, for teaching me that I don't need to be polite anymore (at least not towards men). I've been doing it wrong all these years.
Seriously, though, why do you accept poor behavior from attractive women just because they're attractive? I don't understand this. I don't let a good-looking man get away with crap, just because he's hot.
09-18-09 | 07:01 AM
#57
out walking the earth
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 21,440
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From: Lake Placid, NY
I don't accept poor behavior from anyone. That said, I'm from Jersey...want to hook up?
09-18-09 | 07:07 AM
#58
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,244
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From: Traverse City Michigan
I have never seen a woman on BF respond in a sexist manor such as that when the subject of the thread is in a serious tone. Your reply's such as " I'm from Jersey, Wanna hook up" are no better. Posters such as your self are what keep many of the females off of the road forum.
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Kona Jake the Snake
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09-18-09 | 07:12 AM
#59
out walking the earth
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 21,440
Likes: 752
From: Lake Placid, NY
you are kidding right? it was a joke.
09-18-09 | 07:15 AM
#60
Nerd
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From: Bordentown NJ
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I have never seen a woman on BF respond in a sexist manor such as that when the subject of the thread is in a serious tone. Your reply's such as " I'm from Jersey, Wanna hook up" are no better. Posters such as your self are what keep many of the females off of the road forum.
09-18-09 | 07:18 AM
#61
out walking the earth
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 21,440
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From: Lake Placid, NY
Your 'nerd' title and the fact that you're from Jersey gave away that you might actually have a sense humor and get irony.
09-18-09 | 07:23 AM
#63
out walking the earth
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 21,440
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From: Lake Placid, NY
I have never seen a woman on BF respond in a sexist manor such as that when the subject of the thread is in a serious tone. Your reply's such as " I'm from Jersey, Wanna hook up" are no better. Posters such as your self are what keep many of the females off of the road forum.
09-18-09 | 07:23 AM
#64
Jet Jockey
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From: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike, Bike Friday Haul-a-Day, Surly Pugsley.
I have never seen the problem between respecting women and also viewing them in a more...sexual way. I mean, I'm a guy. I'm supposed to do that, right.
The thing is, the more I respect a woman, the hotter she is. A beautiful piece of arm candy is nice to look at, but if there's no respect then the hotness fades rapidly. I was on my 2nd date once with a gorgeous gal, and she was so eff-ing stupid that I faked being ill so I could drop her off and go hang with the fellas.
I've never seen a problem with the fact that if a woman is attractive, and intelligent, and active, and could even kick my butt at some of my hobbies also makes her more attractive to me in ways that aren't purely cerebral and platonic.
Maybe that just makes me a juvenile objectifier of women though.
The thing is, the more I respect a woman, the hotter she is. A beautiful piece of arm candy is nice to look at, but if there's no respect then the hotness fades rapidly. I was on my 2nd date once with a gorgeous gal, and she was so eff-ing stupid that I faked being ill so I could drop her off and go hang with the fellas.
I've never seen a problem with the fact that if a woman is attractive, and intelligent, and active, and could even kick my butt at some of my hobbies also makes her more attractive to me in ways that aren't purely cerebral and platonic.
Maybe that just makes me a juvenile objectifier of women though.
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Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
09-18-09 | 07:25 AM
#65
stole your bike
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That's because their (our) testosterone levels are dropping and they are also realizing that they can't compete with the younger males for the truly "hot" women anymore (unless they are stinking rich). So they rationalize things and pretend to convince themselves that they'd prefer a "good talker" or whatever. I'm lucky, my wife is still totally hot! (I'm lucky that she has many other great qualities in addition to that, but if she didn't have those I still would have probably been with her anyway and would just be more miserable all these years later, ha!).
Take out the word "just" and the answer is because they are men. It's in our DNA to be visual and to judge women on their appearance. Most of us also seek other qualities in women, but we can't ever get past treating them like sexual objects. It's just the way we are built. (gay men are the same, just towards other men: and thus the emphasis on physical looks and grooming and fashion in the gay community). I know it's not something you can truly understand since you aren't made like we are, but surely by your age you've figured out that this is not something that women are going to be able to change about men, right? (unless you start giving us secret hormone shots in our sleep!)
Take out the word "just" and the answer is because they are men. It's in our DNA to be visual and to judge women on their appearance. Most of us also seek other qualities in women, but we can't ever get past treating them like sexual objects. It's just the way we are built. (gay men are the same, just towards other men: and thus the emphasis on physical looks and grooming and fashion in the gay community). I know it's not something you can truly understand since you aren't made like we are, but surely by your age you've figured out that this is not something that women are going to be able to change about men, right? (unless you start giving us secret hormone shots in our sleep!)
We are as limited as we allow ourselves to be, so I suppose this simplified answer works for some. Sure there are aspects of being a man that might be inherent in our nature but a good portion of our behavior is conditioned so it's a matter of questioning that and moving beyond what is archaic. Personally I like the idea of treating everyone with respect and civility, it just seems to work very well. There's a time and place for everything, I just don't think letting the sexual perception of women dominate and influence my every interaction with them.
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09-18-09 | 07:27 AM
#66
Jet Jockey
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From: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike, Bike Friday Haul-a-Day, Surly Pugsley.
By the way, for those saying that cycling and other sports "will always" be dominated by men: there's no reason that this has to be true unless you want it to be true. Which I suspect is the case, which is sad, but culture will move forward without you. Rowing is a great example of a sport that, in the United States anyway, is near parity. There is nothing organic about male-dominated participation in sports.
Other examples: curling, ice skating (including speed skating), track and field, skiing... all of these sports, if they are not AT parity in competition, are closer to it than cycling is. Why is that? This "sports will always be dominated by men" idea looks a bit weak.
Other examples: curling, ice skating (including speed skating), track and field, skiing... all of these sports, if they are not AT parity in competition, are closer to it than cycling is. Why is that? This "sports will always be dominated by men" idea looks a bit weak.
It's not right, it just is. One could write books on cultural holdovers from our largely Victorian and puritan past.
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Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
09-18-09 | 07:29 AM
#67
gmt
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,509
Likes: 3
From: Binghamton, NY
this thread:
1. knee-jerk reactions
2. generalities
3. humor identification failure
4. judgmentalism
It's a friggin INTERNET FORUM. You cannot judge a person by a few things they type in here. All of us are far more complex than that. Some folks need to stop taking things so seriously.
1. knee-jerk reactions
2. generalities
3. humor identification failure
4. judgmentalism
It's a friggin INTERNET FORUM. You cannot judge a person by a few things they type in here. All of us are far more complex than that. Some folks need to stop taking things so seriously.
09-18-09 | 07:34 AM
#68
Draught
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,051
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From: Georgia
Bikes: N-1 where N = number needed
this thread:
1. Knee-jerk reactions
2. Generalities
3. Humor identification failure
4. Judgmentalism
it's a friggin internet forum. You cannot judge a person by a few things they type in here. All of us are far more complex than that. Some folks need to stop taking things so seriously.
1. Knee-jerk reactions
2. Generalities
3. Humor identification failure
4. Judgmentalism
it's a friggin internet forum. You cannot judge a person by a few things they type in here. All of us are far more complex than that. Some folks need to stop taking things so seriously.
09-18-09 | 07:36 AM
#69
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
Likes: 1
In the last day, two of the most popular threads have been closed for creating gender-interest controversy and sexually inappropriate material. Others seem to be heading that way. As a forum who recognizes the want, and need, for more female involvement in our great sport, are we shooting ourselves in the foot by creating forum in which women do not feel comfortable.
DISCUSS:
DISCUSS:
09-18-09 | 07:41 AM
#70
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 645
Likes: 3
From: NY
this thread:
1. knee-jerk reactions
2. generalities
3. humor identification failure
4. judgmentalism
It's a friggin INTERNET FORUM. You cannot judge a person by a few things they type in here. All of us are far more complex than that. Some folks need to stop taking things so seriously.
1. knee-jerk reactions
2. generalities
3. humor identification failure
4. judgmentalism
It's a friggin INTERNET FORUM. You cannot judge a person by a few things they type in here. All of us are far more complex than that. Some folks need to stop taking things so seriously.
09-18-09 | 07:54 AM
#71
Nerd
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,033
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From: Bordentown NJ
Bikes: Cervelo R3 SL, Cervelo P2
Trust me, the women have noticed. He's not overstating.
09-18-09 | 08:06 AM
#72
Should Be More Popular
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
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09-18-09 | 08:11 AM
#73
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Lactate Threshold
Bikes: Orbea
09-18-09 | 08:16 AM
#74
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,546
Likes: 5
From: Boulder, CO
Thanks for starting this thread, SendMoreChris - it's a good one.
I agree, it's a hostile posting / reading environment. To be fair, it's hostile to everyone, but hostile in a particular additional and unpleasant way towards women. I'm really pleased to see in the last few days that a good number of men have been willing to stick up for respectful behavior, and to participate in discussion about it that hasn't degenerated (too much) into name-calling and junior-high humor.
I haven't experienced nearly as much sexism in real life as I have on this forum.
I don't know if anything is going to change here in the 41 because of this post, but it makes me feel a little more welcome just to have it out in the open. Thanks guys.
I agree, it's a hostile posting / reading environment. To be fair, it's hostile to everyone, but hostile in a particular additional and unpleasant way towards women. I'm really pleased to see in the last few days that a good number of men have been willing to stick up for respectful behavior, and to participate in discussion about it that hasn't degenerated (too much) into name-calling and junior-high humor.
I haven't experienced nearly as much sexism in real life as I have on this forum.
I don't know if anything is going to change here in the 41 because of this post, but it makes me feel a little more welcome just to have it out in the open. Thanks guys.
09-18-09 | 08:17 AM
#75
Nerd
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From: Bordentown NJ
Bikes: Cervelo R3 SL, Cervelo P2
But I think that's a subject for a different thread.