Cat 5 pace?
11-23-09 | 09:56 PM
#26
Elite Fred
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It's a 50 minute race. Figured that waiting to do a race, primarily for fun, until April would give me enough time to gain some experience and get my legs conditioned. So, what do you guys think about for the pace and what type of training do you guys do for a circuit race?
Also find some group ride that are much faster than you can ride. Do those every time even though you get dropped. Trust me on this: those guys only laugh at the people that show up once and are never seen again. They respect the folks that keep showing up because they all were "that guy" at one time.
11-23-09 | 10:02 PM
#27
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hey guys, i consider myself physically fit enough to succeed greatly in a cat 5 race.
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
11-23-09 | 10:04 PM
#28
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I'll add to all of the above the Sea Otter is not a good race to pick as your first. It's a brutal course and it's a big race so it attracts a lot of stronger people. It also gets a lot of strong mountain bikers doing there annual cat 5 road race There's nothing like a pro mountain biker stringing out a rapidly disintegrating group up the climb and then descending with a bunch of noobs through the corkscrew.
There's nothing like a pro mountain biker stringing out a rapidly disintegrating group up the climb and then descending with a bunch of noobs through the corkscrew.
11-23-09 | 10:10 PM
#30
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hey guys, i consider myself physically fit enough to succeed greatly in a cat 5 race.
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
I love how new racers think they can have a "plan" going into their first race. It's kind of like having a "plan" for the first time you get laid - it doesn't go exactly the way you thought it would, but it was awesome....and it was over real quick for a lot of you guys.
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11-23-09 | 10:11 PM
#31
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Young and cocky at least.
You don't push, you learn to find holes. Also if it's not near the end of the race, you mahy get a lot of mileage out of just saying "excuse me" or "on your left" or something.
11-23-09 | 10:18 PM
#32
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hey guys, i consider myself physically fit enough to succeed greatly in a cat 5 race.
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
11-23-09 | 11:36 PM
#33
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I would also suggest doing lots of intervals starting around January if you can get in a decent base period between now and then. Too many overzealous racers (especially new ones)don't prescribe to a base period at all or don't do enough of one and then wonder why they get nagging injuries, or even burnt out before their first few races. Build the engine (aerobic) and then tweak the supercharger (anaerobic). Most importantly, listen to your body. If you're not recovering from your previous efforts properly, don't keep pushing. Take a day off or do a recovery ride. I would pick up a copy of Friels Cyclist Training Bible. Good reading and has never let me down.
I may do the Sea Otter race too. I have family in Carmel so I have a place to stay.
UMD is right. The Laguna Seca course is pretty wicked and the Sea Otter Classic is a big event. Isn't there another event you could choose for your first race?
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Last edited by ZXiMan; 11-23-09 at 11:41 PM.
11-23-09 | 11:52 PM
#34
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I'll add to all of the above the Sea Otter is not a good race to pick as your first. It's a brutal course and it's a big race so it attracts a lot of stronger people. It also gets a lot of strong mountain bikers doing there annual cat 5 road race There's nothing like a pro mountain biker stringing out a rapidly disintegrating group up the climb and then descending with a bunch of noobs through the corkscrew.
There's nothing like a pro mountain biker stringing out a rapidly disintegrating group up the climb and then descending with a bunch of noobs through the corkscrew.
11-24-09 | 12:17 AM
#35
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regarding pace, let me say this. in a crit in Philly during the ECCC season (collegiate cat D, equivalent in some ways), the course was just over 1 mile, it was pouring cats and dogs, I sprinted harder than I ever thought possible. there were also times where I was coasting and thought my heart might actually pull through.
average speed on my garmin at the end of the race: 27.2mph
wtf?
average speed on my garmin at the end of the race: 27.2mph
wtf?
11-24-09 | 12:42 AM
#36
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11-24-09 | 01:23 AM
#37
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Also, from what I understand the sea otter classic is a hugggee bike event, so I figured since I really want to get into cycling - why not go and experience the culture of a huge event and have a great time?
Do the Early Bird series in January for race experience.
Last years flyer (this year should be similar): https://www.velopromo.com/ebcr-ent.htm
Last years flyer (this year should be similar): https://www.velopromo.com/ebcr-ent.htm
11-24-09 | 01:33 AM
#38
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I will resort to my standard reply about what's racing about/like.
If you want to know what your first race will be like - go have a buddy kick you as hard as he can in your junk. When you can see straight again - if you can contemplate having him do it again then you're ready to race.
The only thing that separates that experience form a real race is that it's only missing the sheer terror of riding within a few inches of sketchy riders as you head into a corner.
You will never push yourself hard enough to "prepare" for a race. Ride in a group first. Then ride in a fast group. It is simply impossible to simulate the intensity and spikes alone.
The difference between road racing/crits and something like running or a triathlon is something like this:
In a tri - they give everyone a medal and pat everyone on the back, "You FINISHED! How AWESOME! We're so proud of you!" - not unlike giving a trophy to the last place little league team because "they tried".
In a Crit - you get to deal with a registration person who is either in a foul mood or clueless. Pay an amount that when back-calculated as fun/minute is on par with illicit pursuits. Line up next to a bunch of 120# college kids and 400# master racers who are all stacked into a starting bunch like a herd of bulls who just smelled a cow. Accelerate like you were trying to launch a vehicle into orbit, go cross-eyed, see spots, go again, Faster??? really? ...and then pop. Come around and the official will give you what I like to call the "superweek salute" (a sweeping motion with the hand across the neck - the universal "you've been cut off" sign) and loudly call out yuor number as you go by - as though he's calling out the tag number of a bull that came off the herd and should be sent to slaughter.
....then you won't get placed and there will be no record of your poor performance, or that you even got out of bed that day.
...and allyou will be thinking is, "When's the next race?"
DFL>DNF>DNS
If you want to know what your first race will be like - go have a buddy kick you as hard as he can in your junk. When you can see straight again - if you can contemplate having him do it again then you're ready to race.
The only thing that separates that experience form a real race is that it's only missing the sheer terror of riding within a few inches of sketchy riders as you head into a corner.
You will never push yourself hard enough to "prepare" for a race. Ride in a group first. Then ride in a fast group. It is simply impossible to simulate the intensity and spikes alone.
The difference between road racing/crits and something like running or a triathlon is something like this:
In a tri - they give everyone a medal and pat everyone on the back, "You FINISHED! How AWESOME! We're so proud of you!" - not unlike giving a trophy to the last place little league team because "they tried".
In a Crit - you get to deal with a registration person who is either in a foul mood or clueless. Pay an amount that when back-calculated as fun/minute is on par with illicit pursuits. Line up next to a bunch of 120# college kids and 400# master racers who are all stacked into a starting bunch like a herd of bulls who just smelled a cow. Accelerate like you were trying to launch a vehicle into orbit, go cross-eyed, see spots, go again, Faster??? really? ...and then pop. Come around and the official will give you what I like to call the "superweek salute" (a sweeping motion with the hand across the neck - the universal "you've been cut off" sign) and loudly call out yuor number as you go by - as though he's calling out the tag number of a bull that came off the herd and should be sent to slaughter.
....then you won't get placed and there will be no record of your poor performance, or that you even got out of bed that day.
...and allyou will be thinking is, "When's the next race?"
DFL>DNF>DNS
11-24-09 | 06:31 AM
#39
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unlike triathlons, and marathons, you likely will spend some time at the winners pace. even if you dnf.
11-24-09 | 08:23 AM
#40
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yea i know i totally sound cocky. but i said i have the FITNESS, not the skill 
i know i will be able to out cycle a lot of people but you guys are right, i dont expect or plan to even finish in the top half, if i do then great!
i know i will be able to out cycle a lot of people but you guys are right, i dont expect or plan to even finish in the top half, if i do then great!
11-24-09 | 08:37 AM
#41
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hey guys, i consider myself physically fit enough to succeed greatly in a cat 5 race.
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
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11-24-09 | 09:16 AM
#42
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hey guys, i consider myself physically fit enough to succeed greatly in a cat 5 race.
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
however, i have never raced before, and i am young, 19 years of age.
if i get stuck in a field surrounded by riders i know i can out cycle, how do i push myself out without verbally begging or causing intentional crashes in my wake
You can out cycles a lot of people on the road. In a race, you might be surprised. Everyone who bothers to go to a race has fitness. There aren't participation trophies in cycling like in triathlons. Those old guys with really expensive bikes don't race (most of 'em anyway). Maybe you are fast, no one knows (until you race), but don't think about "top half" think about "pack" or "pulled".
11-24-09 | 09:17 AM
#43
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Bringing this back to the OP, it only takes one or two super-freaks to really make the field suffer. It's kind of the luck of the draw. I've seen cat 5 races where there was nobody particularly strong and the field limped around in the low-20s for half an hour, but on the other hand I've also seen cat 5 races where a handful of really strong guys strung out the field in the high-20s leaving a string of shelled riders in their wake. A race like Sea Otter increases the likelyhood of these strong riders exponentially. But again, it's not the average "pace" that shells most riders, it's the max speed and the surges. Throw in a climb like at Laguna Seca and you better be a strong climber too. It's not a huge climb but it has a steep section and you have to do it over and over again. Anaerobic intervals to the max.
11-24-09 | 09:19 AM
#44
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11-24-09 | 09:20 AM
#45
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Typical 4-5 race. There will be an all out sprint at the start, so don't get caught with your pants down. The sprint will quickly dissapate and settle down into a huge group that will go along fairly slowly until someone tries to go off the front, then that person will be chased down immediately. The group will bunch up and slow down again. This will go on for the whole race. Loafing, then a mad dash to chase anything down that goes off the front. So my advice is to just sit in towards the front third of group your first races just to get the feel of the race. Have fun.
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11-24-09 | 09:24 AM
#46
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Man that sucked. An NRC race in everything but name. 
Left to right: Bissell, Ben Jacques-Maynes, Paul Mach, Andy Jacques-Maynes, Garmin, Levi, Nate English, Julian Martinez, Me, Fly V (behind).
Left to right: Bissell, Ben Jacques-Maynes, Paul Mach, Andy Jacques-Maynes, Garmin, Levi, Nate English, Julian Martinez, Me, Fly V (behind).
Last edited by esammuli; 11-24-09 at 09:56 AM.
11-24-09 | 10:59 AM
#47
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FWIW, I thought I was fit going into my first race. I could outclimb most of my buddies and hang with the fastest guys in my club on club rides.
The constant slowing and surging out of every single corner took its toll on me quickly. I was shelled off the back in the first 25 minutes. Once off the back, it is just a matter of time before you get pulled or lapped; there is no prayer of a normal Joe bridging the gap to the field he couldn't hang with in the first place.
There is a LOT of value in losing, however.
For instance,
1: I have learned that you can't let a bunch of guys go past you one by one or all together and still expect to finish with the pack. That was a valuable lesson for me.
2: I have learned that I can redline my body at levels I had never seen before and I will live through the pain. That pain is an absolute wall if you have not encountered it frequently in the past. Only racing can give you that knowledge.
3: I have learned that sometimes being a better bike handler is more valueable than being a stronger rider. Every corner is a chance to gain a position or at least not blow your current position.
4: I have learned that those in the back of a field in a crit with a lot of corners have almost no chance of staying on: so it is worth whatever it costs to get up toward the front where you can avoid slowing so much in every corner.
The constant slowing and surging out of every single corner took its toll on me quickly. I was shelled off the back in the first 25 minutes. Once off the back, it is just a matter of time before you get pulled or lapped; there is no prayer of a normal Joe bridging the gap to the field he couldn't hang with in the first place.
There is a LOT of value in losing, however.
For instance,
1: I have learned that you can't let a bunch of guys go past you one by one or all together and still expect to finish with the pack. That was a valuable lesson for me.
2: I have learned that I can redline my body at levels I had never seen before and I will live through the pain. That pain is an absolute wall if you have not encountered it frequently in the past. Only racing can give you that knowledge.
3: I have learned that sometimes being a better bike handler is more valueable than being a stronger rider. Every corner is a chance to gain a position or at least not blow your current position.
4: I have learned that those in the back of a field in a crit with a lot of corners have almost no chance of staying on: so it is worth whatever it costs to get up toward the front where you can avoid slowing so much in every corner.
Last edited by Sawtooth; 11-24-09 at 11:04 AM.
11-24-09 | 11:05 AM
#48
I'll add to all of the above the Sea Otter is not a good race to pick as your first. It's a brutal course and it's a big race so it attracts a lot of stronger people. It also gets a lot of strong mountain bikers doing there annual cat 5 road race There's nothing like a pro mountain biker stringing out a rapidly disintegrating group up the climb and then descending with a bunch of noobs through the corkscrew.
There's nothing like a pro mountain biker stringing out a rapidly disintegrating group up the climb and then descending with a bunch of noobs through the corkscrew.
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11-24-09 | 11:59 AM
#49
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I love how new racers think they can have a "plan" going into their first race. It's kind of like having a "plan" for the first time you get laid - it doesn't go exactly the way you thought it would, but it was awesome....and it was over real quick for a lot of you guys.
