Eclectus

OP, why don't you try test-riding bikes with SRAM and 105/Ultegra shifters , and see if any of them shift easily for you. If so, buy a set. I have big hands, but even so, I find it easier to shift small-to-big from the hoods than in the hooks, e.g. doing a three-cog downshift in one sweep is definitely easier from the top. Instead of extending your shifting finger in the drops, you're "curling" (flexing) it on the hoods, which is easier, in my experience.

truckstop

Good point -
I do have access to a 105/ultegra mix equipped bike, and already know I like the shifters better, but I haven't test ridden a SRAM bike yet because I have an issue with wasting a sales-person's time when I have no intention of buying it from them (although I could probably go to the shop where we've bought 4 bikes + other stuff in the past two years with a clear conscience.) My original intent with the thread was to find a low-buck fix if possible, so I'm looking for used/internet deal.

What I haven't mentioned yet is that the Mr. doesn't want me to find cheap old/used 105 or Ultegra shifters to just swap them out. He said if I'm changing the shifters, he wants me to change the cassette and RD as well. Since those three pieces separate cost almost as much as a group, I might as well get a 5 piece group, which then is no longer a low-buck option and I'm back to square one.

bryroth

Not necessarily true. I've bought used ultegra shifters for $60 before on craigslist. If you find a good deal then there you go. But if you want to change over to a bike with a different fit, as some have suggested, then you might as well buy a new one I suppose.

EDIT: Oh, and just for the record, I have the same problem as you. I went through all the Shimano variations looking for a solution. I finally got frustrated and slapped a flat bar on my road bike. I'm happy now, although my hands get numb. I'll probably wind up with carpal tunnel - but I'll trade that for being able to shift easily!

I haven't tried Campy. Please let us know if it fixes your problem.

Bob Dopolina 

Anthony G,

Rotate your bars back to the point where the drops are at least level with the ground. You aren't doing your wrists any favours.

To the OP don't be confused by reach and throw. They are different things. Most responses have been about reach. As you probably know throw is about the distance the shift lever has to travel to actuate a shift. Campagnolo has been shortening the distance each redesign they have done in the last decade. They have both the shortest reach (distance to levers) and the shortest throw (if set up correctly) of the major drive component players.

having said this the bend in the bars where the lever is actually bolted can affect the reach and this can have a negative effect on the throw. Most bars are designed for the Shimano bend (the radius of the shift lever where it interfaces with the bar) and considering overall sales this is rightly so. Deda brand bars, on the other hand, are specifically designed for Campagnolo and offer the best interface between bar and Campagnolo shifter.

If you have worked out all the fit issues and have your components set up well but still are having throw issues I'd suggest you look at Campagnolo 2010 or newer.

truckstop

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I know I can find cheap shifters, it's that my husband wont let me go that route, he wants me to get at least the shifters, cassette, and RD. The bike itself fits nearly perfect, besides some minor tweaking. The expensive bit is spending $500+ on a whole component group set upgrade. I suppose I should be happy he wants me to upgrade everything, but as the household accountant, I can't justify it.

Yep, I've been deciphering the responses that are about reach but not really addressing the throw. Thank you for the additional info about Campy and the bars.

AnthonyG

Bob, Thanks for the advise but you obviously haven't paid any attention to what MY hands look like. The bars are rotated down in order to open up the curve because I ONLY use the upper part of the drops and the setup isn't really that radical anyway. Its more old school with level lever bodies than new school with them sticking up.

Anthony

truckstop

For research purposes, which Campy groups = Apex/Rival and 105/Ultegra?
I've always heard that Campy doesn't make any crappy entry level stuff, but I'm unfamiliar with them other than my husband lusting after a BMC at the LBS with Super Record on it.

Bob Dopolina 

Centaur.

Best bang for the buck.

Bob Dopolina 

Anthony, not to turn this into a fit debate but I am looking at your hands.

Your wrists are shoved forward because of the way the bars are set up. Here's my suggestion. Take it for what you will.

Rotate the bars so the tops are level. Slide the shifter back down the bars so that there is a flat plane from the top of the bend onto the top of the shifters. You will most likely have to add a longer stem and remove a spacer from your steerer to get your hands back to the same point in space where they are now and where you probably prefer them.

In this picture your wrists are locked into a position that will cause you much grief a few years from now.

The suggestion I am making will give you a larger surface area on the tops to support your hands and is not the 'jacked' position you're referring to (I'm not a fan of jacking the levers either. I think it is a product of compact frame design and too much drop for most people).

In the end it's your bike. Ride it. Love it.

AnthonyG

Bob, My hands are shoved forward because that's the way they are. I can NOT straighten my wrists.

Anthony

Bob Dopolina 

Ah, this makes sense.


I take it you've had to make adjustments to facilitate personal needs. Well, carry on then.

BarracksSi

AnthonyG -- do you have your shifters aimed straight ahead, parallel with the stem?

I'm wondering if truckstop would benefit somewhat from angling them slightly outboard, reducing the "travel" that the fingers need to push, if you catch my drift. That made me think about your setup and whether you're using a different sideways angle as well.

AnthonyG

I've have my levers on straight but they are VERY close which helps a lot. The bars chosen and where you put the levers on the bar has a lot to do with the distance to the levers which is why I think she would do better by changing handlebars before she goes down the road of changing the groupset.

Anthony

truckstop

My bars are 40cm, and the outsides of the bars line up almost exactly with the outside of my shoulders/arms. It was my understanding that this is the correct fit, and that going much narrower than your shoulders can make the handling suck and restrict your lungs? The levers are very slightly angled out. The height is pretty "relaxed" with the tops of the bars about equal to the height of the seat. From what you guys are saying I think the bars are rotated up a little bit and the levers might be too high? (I always thought they looked weird.)

This has been comfortable for me, besides the awkward shifting.

Eclectus

OP, I was going to suggest Campy Ergo earlier, but this requires a major overhaul. However, if you're hubby favors this...

To clarify/correct myself, I went out today with SRAM, and monitored what I was doing. On the hoods, I was shifting hitting the paddles high, near the pivots, but unconsciously using two fingers (index and middle) to shorten the sweep in small-to-big ring shifts, with easily enough strength via two fingers to shift with very little pressure. I really think you should test-ride SRAM. If you've bought 4 bikes from a shop, that gives you some "customer capital", since the shop has made money from you. Otherwise maybe you can find a rider you know that would be happy to let you try his/her SRAM, with no misgivings about "abusing" your LBS. Or you could be upfront and tell the LBS that if you like it, you'll price-shop, and maybe make your purchase somewhere else, but you'll give them the chance to compete, and whatever happens, you'll continue to buy stuff from them. Maybe bring them some home-made brownies, then while they're munching and high on sugar (or some other ingredient), make the proposition.

AnthonyG

Yes I would definitely try rotating your bars down until the bottom of the bars are level with the ground and see what you think. I really think you need to find another set of handlebars first before you spend money on other things. The width is fine, you need to look for a set of bars with a constant curve bellow where the levers bolt on, no flat section at all and bars with a shallower drop would be beneficial as well.

Anthony

truckstop

Ok, I know you were all waiting by your computers for an update.

Short story: I got a full SRAM Force group. It's not on the bike yet as it was purchased just this evening from the LBS, but holy krikey is there a huge difference from Tiagra.

Long story:
I spent time on my last couple rides adjusting things, and rotating the bars down didn't do anything for the throw. Nada. Tipping down more than the hoods being horizontal/level with the top just gave me sore wrists and forearms. I tried with the bottom of the bars parallel to the ground and it was way too far. My wrists ended up at an uncomfortable angle in the drops and the reach to get to the hoods was a little too much and my hands hurt. I think in order to rotate it down I need a shorter stem and to remove a spacer from the headset to make that angle work. (Does that make sense? The bike is pretty "flat" right now.)

In the meantime I've been scanning eBay and was outbid on a full Rival group and then an almost new full 2004 Campy Record group (with bars and carbon seat stem) that went for $710 (!!!).

My husband got home from work this afternoon and declared that he wanted to go to our LBS to look at stuff.

Now, going to the bike shop to "look at stuff" is ALWAYS a dangerous thing to do, because we have this terrible habit of coming home with bikes.

I wandered around, clicking everything. Ultegra, pretty good! Definitely usable throw distance. Dura Ace, nice but too much $$. Rival and Force, hmmm, that's pretty good, digging the double tap, way shorter throw than anything else. (No Campy at this shop.)

The husband found something he really liked with Red on it, so they sent him out for a ride around the parking lot. When he came back in he shoved the bike at me and said "ride this" so we dropped the seat an inch and I went out on it.

!!! It was heavenly. Super smooth shifting! Very little wrist rotation! I could shift in the drops! The drivetrain didn't make noises like it was exploding! Awesomeness! The whole bike was fantastic, everything felt light and precise.

So we priced out the Rival group, and for kicks Force as well. After some discussion, uncomfortable stares (he gave us really good, can't turn down prices for both the groups and the bike) and my exclaiming "I just wanted shifters!!" we settled on buying the Force group, and we'll probably end up buying the bike later this week.

The Mr. will have to work some extra overtime, but I know this was totally a scam to butter me up to be ok with him getting the bike... and this ladies and gentlemen, is how a search for some old, used, $60 shifters turns into spending nearly $4K at the LBS.


P.S. Thanks for all the help in this thread, and the assistance in trying to work through this with me. I've learned a bunch.

Bob Dopolina 

Sweeeeeeeeet.

AnthonyG

I'm glad you like the new levers but honestly I think that something else had to be going on at the same time. You cant achieve short throw AND lighter action without there having been TOO much friction in the old setup, probably from parts and cables which needed lubrication or were just BADLY setup in the first place, ie poorly cut cables.

Anthony

truckstop

I did ask around initially if it was an adjustment or cable issue and just got blank stares.
I didn't check the other Tiagra equipped bikes at the LBS, but since this has been an issue since I bought it, I didn't really think of it as a maintenance issue (like cable lube). I do suspect that the cables need adjusting.

Anyway, I think in a way, my husband knew better than to just let me get shifters, since I've been complaining about how much the Tiagra group sucked in general compared to the 105/Ultegra group on my old bike.

I'll still be messing around with the fit and bar position though...

roadiejorge 

Good luck with the new SRAM gruppo, they made my hands very happy after using Shimano for a short spell. I originally started road riding on Campy which I really liked, but when I got a more current bike equiped with Shimano I just never felt comfortable braking from the hoods no matter how I adjusted it. I gave SRAM a try and it felt great so now I have it on both of my bikes.

BarracksSi

I don't think that any cable problems would affect the throw distance. It would affect effort, yeah, but the lever angle would have been the same.

Eclectus

SRAM makes the best mechanical shifting system. If you have small hands, no shims necessary, just dial the brake lever and shifter, or shifter-only screw to bring things in closer to the bar.

OP, I'm glad you gave SRAM a try. Sorry about the expense. Of course, you know you will have to ride more, to justify it. That's what happened to me.

Electronic has enormous potential, eventually, hit "Upshift /Downshift" button and the computer figures out whether to just do rear cogs, or coordinated rear and front chainring shifts. Not there yet. Shouldn't be too long though.

adriano 

how do you shift and brake? is that your pinky or thumb in the foreground? your grip is mindbending. also, try cutting off the bottom of the drops if you cant use them! i too am a believer in shorter and longer cranks for folks of not so average height and slack seat tubes for all, but 140mm cranks are too short for your leg length unless theres something else going on or you are well below five foot.

i think i have a good example of setting up sram levers. i believe i rotated both up just a hair since this picture.

gus6464

What the OP needed was some Di2. No need to worry about throwing distance when all you have to do is push a button. The SRAM sauce is thick in this thread.