Barrettscv 

A local fitness center offers VO2max testing:

https://www.wellfitinc.com/coaching/P...axTesting.aspx

If you have had your VO2max tested, could you discribe the process & how it helped you train?

Thank you,

Michael

echappist

They put you on an indoor cycling machine and gradually ramp up the resistance. Your HR will be analyzed & they'll hook an additional item to your mouth to measure oxygen intake (the one i used was jokingly referred to as the cannibal lecter restraining device). continual HR & O2 uptake data will be provided to a computer for analysis, and the test goes on for about 10 or maybe 20 minutes until you can't push the pedals anymore.

things you get out: max power (1min), power at lactate threshold (which may not be your functional threshold), VO2 max, HR at VO2 max, so on. you can also get a good estimate of calorie expenditure

merlinextraligh

I've had V02 max testing, and it didn't help in my training one iota. Knowing your VO2 max is good for barroom bragging (or in my case self loaving)

Knowing your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate, and power at LTHR ( essentially your functional threshold power) on the other hand is valuable, in that you can use it to set up a Heart rate based training program. In fact the last time I had testing done in a lab, my COach didn't even bother to do the V02 max part.

Also, I've found, particularly with a power meter, that you can get all the data you need from field testing. Moreover, the field testing data is probably more useful because its easier to repeat.

The last time I did test in the Lab, my LTHR, and power were almost identical to what a field test predicted. Thus, since I got a power meter, I don't test in the lab anymore.

I'd save my money toward the purchase of a power meter.

Howzit

Absolutely correct.
Complete waste of time. Just another grant some researcher got to feed his/her family and come up with a new gimmick.
VO2 Max also changes, so its like paying somebody $150/200 to put you on a scale to weigh you. With a little exercise you can easily change your weight, just as you can your VO2 Max.
Even if you go to Colorado for 6 days and do nothing but chill by a pool you VO2 Max will increase by a lot because your himatocrit will go up 5 percentage points.
Complete waste of time.

Barrettscv 

Good info. What about lactate threshold? also a waste?

I would like some baseline data. I'm considering a more effective training plan, I would like to know what's working.

MDcatV

i've had it done like mcjimbo describes. an estimate of lactate threshold was derived at the point the #s indicated the change from burning "fat calories" to "carb calories." a coach i used to work with used them for evaluating athletes she coached at 1) beginning of training season; 2) post base period; 3) around planned peak; 4) post race season. i didnt find the information particularly useful. coach did. i also found the variance between tests to be too great to correlate, and the time between tests too long to provide information that was useful to me.

i think the on road or on trainer testing is more useful for establishing training zones. there are lots of methodologies for differing training and measuring of training methodologies.

i wouldnt say that performing the testing is a waste, but it has its limitations and i'm of the opinion that other methods provide better information.

datlas 

I agree with Merlin, if you want to be more scientific in your training, get a power meter.

merlinextraligh

If you're training by HR, knowing your LTHR is the base of most HR driven programs. However, you can establish by field tests without spending time and money on the lab.

And when you consider a used power meter setup can be had for $300, or a new wired PT for $600. A couple of Lab test sesssions is a good start on a power meter.

Hermes

This plus....... even if you know your LTHR, HR lags power so much that it is, IMO, not effective for interval training at z5 and z6.

mckeithen

Great string. Can someone give or send me to directions for a field test? Thanks.

jrobe

https://www.amazon.com/Training-Racin.../dp/1931382794

All you need to know about training, field testing and training zones for the amazingly low price of $14.

Rocket-Sauce 

I think I read recently that Lance has no idea what his VO2 Max is. I have had my VO2 measured several times when part of the US National Team for rowing. The info was useful to the exercise physiologists who were working with the coaches and trainers to help design better training programs, and to measure our progress.

I met Lance at the OTC in Colorado Springs in the winter of 93 (or maybe 94?). Both the cyclists and rowers had just gone through a round of VO2 testing. We had to run on a treadmill that kept getting slightly faster and slightly steeper at certain time intervals. We had a mouthpiece taped in place and our noses clipped shut. You kept going until you fell. Also along the way, they would take blood samples to measure blood chemistry. You kept going until you fell off. There were guys holding big pads and pillows to catch you when you collapsed. It was horrible.

I remember that I had the same raw score as Lance, but he beat me when adjusted for body mass. I joked with him "Yeah, but how many pull ups can you do?". We talked about how Lance's adjusted score was the same as Miguel Indurain at 88ml/kg/min. Anyway, we were both in awe of Greg Lemond's score which was posted at the top of the wall at 93ml/kg/min.

The only way it would be useful to an individual would be to test multiple times a year as a check on your training. There are easier ways to test your performance.

Shimagnolo

And one of these guys will put both you and Lance to shame: https://outsideonline.com/outside/bod...esearch-1.html

echappist

qft. that's actually why im doing it: i have no powermeter as of now, and i can get tested up to four times a year

MDcatV

who is taking the charts and graphs, interpreting them, drawing conclusions from them, and recommending training based on those conclusions? there's alot of interpretation from these tests that can really alter your training, not always in a good way.

if you're not paying for the tests, that's one thing. if you're paying for this, you are not using your $ optimally to benefit your training.

Howzit

Thats because he doesnt need to, he is on drugs, a doper

Like someone mentioned, this is a perfect example of a pissing contest.

Howzit

Keep it simple. No need for heart rate crap, no need for power meter crap, none of that crap. What you need is do it the only possible way to do it for real.
I will give you the official HOWZIT®©™ 20 step training guide:

1. Figure out the stopwatch function on your bike computer or wrist watch.
2. Figure out weather you are fast on flats or climbs.
3. Depending on the answer to step 2, find a 5 mile climb, or 10mile flat stretch
4. Time yourself for the climb or flat... go as hard as you can.
5. Work on 4 week training blocks
6. Start eliminating time off your time trial for the flat or climb, go as hard as you can, and every time shave time off. Do this TT twice a week.
7. After the fourth week, take an easy week.
8. On the sixth and seventh week, do other stuff, sprints, intervals, gym, whatever you want, or work on climbing if you were doing flats, or do flats if you were doing a climb
9. Take another easy week
10. Start again
11. Include long steady weekend rides, about 4 hours minimum.
12. Keep taking time off your course. Set goals. Remember, you will only get better if you progressively do your Time Trial harder
13. Eat good, sleep good, drink a lot.
14. Make sure you have a daily stretch routine.
15. Maintain your bike and equipment
16. Meditate whenever you can.
17. Stay away from crap like heart rates, power meters, VO2Max e.t.c
18. Persevere
19. Succeed
20. Live the life you have imagined

echappist

a friend on my team works in a lab that has testing equipment, and as such, people on the team volunteer to be guinea pigs for the tests. so yes, they are free. now given that, i get the feeling that this isn't the end all and be all of tests, and given the choice of relying solely on info from VO2max vs info from a powermeter, i'd go with the latter. the number i care the most about: the FTPHR, estimated by taking the last 20min of a 30min TT, & the LTHR obtained from the lab didn't differ that much: 173 for the former and 167 for the latter. while the definition of the two are similar, they aren't the same and i'm actually using what i get on the road test for training purposes.

Howzit

Read the official HOWZIT®©™ training guide above.

One thing club riders forget to factor is mental training and attitude.
You do know that even cancer has been cured by the power of the mind?
Mental conditioning is a far greater tool than any of this crap.

gregf83 

Congratulations. You've just described a power based training program (minus the meditation) with a crude powermeter. Might as well get the real thing.

Howzit

Explain
A stopwatch is a crude power meter?

The lengths some people will go to justify their purchases makes me laugh.

Elaborate how a "real thing" is going to help you exactly?

echappist

don't think he realizes that though

look, we know, you were a former pro or something right? train however you want, but save the spiel regarding how your trademark training plan is superior and leave the disdain for cat-4 using powermeters to bikesnobnyc

Howzit

Instead of issuing personal and emotional responses why dont you answer the question/debate with facts and reason behind your statements instead of shielding yourself with mob mentality.

The method of training I described is called progressive overload. Its got nothing to do with involving a powermeter other than to spend money on expensive toys. This method of training is used in a wide range of sports including body building. Its is a very old and proven training method, and its core is physical adaption due to increased load.

Now, you can attach all the power meters and crap all you want to it, and convince yourself you will get new scientific benefits, but the fundamental method is nothing new, nor does it require an electric fancy toy.
Just as heart rate training was the talk of the day, it now has been phased out as mere trendy ****. (admited by most top couches). In fact, even VO2 Max was hailed the hallmark of measuring and discerning training strategies, and now it has withered away to nothing more than a good joke behind closed doors by those who sold the machines. I take it that you somehow directly or indirectly benefit from the sales of these powermeters?

Lastly, the training method i described requires you to ride until you nearly throw up, I highly doubt your powermeter suggests such training methods. And for the progressive overload method to work, you need to throw up in your efforts, otherwise you are not overloading, nor are you going to succeed in real benefits that are consequential. Now if your goal is to improve like any monkey would riding up and down the street and have fancy charts to show for it, then by all mean stay within your "zones" and "thresholds", but expect, LONG and unsatisfactory gains, if you can call them that.

And yes, I CRUSHED lots of people with heart rate monitors in races because they were too preoccupied with a beeping noise telling them to slow down because they were going beyond their limit while I floated up the mountain with blood shot eyes and nearly collapsing but basking in victory. While they had zonal limits, the sky was my limit, and when the going got tough, the tough had to get going, the boys were sifted from the men, and we drank wine and cheese at the dinner table before we did it all over again the next day.

Please respond with reason, facts, and arguments.

echappist

Kettle, Pot, Black, No Call. Vide Infra
fair enough
please provide citations, thank you.

PS. You are providing perfect examples of "personal and emotional response."

Howzit

You mean the wine and cheese part right?