F logic!

Give me aesthetically appealing AND good quality!



(On sale is even better!)

What's better?
Cheap aluminum or high quality carbon?

Carbon, of course. In the same way trusty aluminum is better than shlitty laid carbon.

Yep. Good Al is better than cheap carbon anyday.

A Tiagra equipped CAAD9 opened up a can of whoop a$$
on a full carbon Ultergra 6700 equipped Planet X bike.
AND it was about 1/2 the price (Cyclist Review...U.K. Magazine).

Notice how the Bonty stem and the cheap Ebay stem that I posted are nearly identical?
Can we honestly believe that they are identical in build/quality?

The benefits to good carbon for me are ride dampening qualities in strategic places.
For some, carbon doesn't make a difference. Then there are others who swear by it.

There are some places where saving a few grams is not as important as having
a solid quality part. A cockpit is definitely (for me) one of those places.

Look. OP. This is the deal.

Carbon is more complex, more expensive, requires quality materials, and someone who knows what they are doing. Every aspect of carbon is more expensive than aluminum. Any idiot can throw a bunch of carbon sheets and epoxy in a mold and pass it off as carbon. Anyone trying to cut costs can use sub-quality carbon material, and even skimp on the number of layers of carbon and use a little extra epoxy. Once carbon is even remotely compromised it is a ticking time bomb. This is why I have trouble trusting cheap carbon from no name Ebay dealers. Why would anyone sell carbon for the same price as aluminum if the production costs of carbon are so much higher? They wouldn't. The price you are paying for your carbon product is a reflection of the cost of production.

That.

Damn, having 2ndGen on the ignore list is almost as annoying as just reading the posts.

There's absolutely no reason to post so many times in a single thread. There's also no reason to believe that there is an automatic relationship between price and strength. In fact, after a certain pricepoint, there is often an inverse relationship.

You don't need to justify your $200 stem purchase to anyone here.

So what you're saying is that because the Rivendell frameset costs as much as a Specialized SL frameset it is therefore as complex? I mean the Rivendell frame doesn't even have a warranty, so it must be really complex!

Do we need a PSA to inform all the Cervelo R3 riders how their lives are in danger? Clearly they must all be riding ticking time bombs since their bikes are cheaper AND lighter than Pinarello frames! Good thing Cervelo makes the R5CA frame. That's clearly a safer, more durable product. I mean it is more expensive, and we all know more money is the only thing that will save you from expensive medical care. And $8,500 is pretty cheap. You can't even buy half your teeth for that, which will fall out when your Pinarello Dogma cracks in half. Better to get the R5CA with Di2. Sure, $12,000 sounds like a lot now, but have you seen the prices for a skin graft on your face? Not so expensive now, is it?

No. What?

No. what are you talking about?


What I said is carbon is not cheap, and if not produced correctly can be dangerous. So if you see some great deal for say a $25 carbon stem on ebay that you don't know anything about or where it came from, and since quality carbon products aren't picked up dirt cheap, chances are it's not a quality product, and I'd therefore be weary of it.

Believe what you want mate. I've consulted a close friend about this who is an R&D technician experimenting with braiding and weaving of carbon for aerospace and marine use. His thoughts were similiar: stay away from cheap sketchy carbon.

"I'm 2ndGen and I approve this message."

You, sir, are far too rational for this place.

Go immerse yourself in marketing, and come back when you're ready.

Becaues the reality is that carbon doesn't cost a whole lot to produce!!!!!!!

not for nothing but there is a HUGE difference between Aerospace and cycling. most of the technology trickles down but the strength and durability needs for an aerospace application are much higher than for a cyclist.

Carbon is relatively cheap these days... You go around this here 'net and you'll see people who work with it in their own damn garage:


https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/howibuil.htm

This is common knowledge. Company contracts a factory for a certain number of units. Factory makes extra to account for any that come out with cosmetic defects, etc. I'm not going to swear to you that anything generic on ebay is top quality, I'm just simply saying that there is a high probability that they are. Think about. You guys want to see carbon product from reputable companies. Well to be considered a reputable company, they need to ahve a presence in cycling magazines, cycling forums, television, at bike shops, etc. All those things cost money and drive up the prices. The ebay guy can charge 1/3 of the big name company because they have next to no costs. the same thing happens in golf. I'll gladly take my no name chinese made muscleback irons up against anybody any time. I get the same arguments on golf forums "ohhh those knockoffs are probalby using zinc instead of 1020 steel, blah blah blah"

Just because they are using the same molds does not mean they are using the same quality of carbon of the same QC.

I should note that I'm not saying all raw carbon sheets are cheap or that there isn't a level of skill involved in laying them with just the right amount of epoxy and pressure...but reality is... 5 years ago top-notch stuff is now cheap(er) and its just as good as when you trusted it 5 years ago.

Sure is...got my stem relatively cheap (for about as much as a good aluminum stem).

I wonder how many of the "it don't have to cost so muchers"
are riding at near 40mph on no-name tires?
How many of them are riding GMC Denalis?
It's all relative.

One man's $200. is another man's 2000.

The thing about carbon is, regardless of what it's used for, is it's only as strong as its weakest link. That's why the nice stuff is expensive, because it's reliable. If you had a product that was comparable to another.. would you sell it at 1/5 the price? I'm not saying that every good deal out there for a low-priced carbon stem is going to fail, all I'm saying is if you find some killer deal on a carbon stem that is 1/5 the price of other comparable products there is probably a good reason for that.

Chances are these products are going to be fine. But in that slight chance it has any defects or is ill-produced.. based on Murphey's Law.. it's going to hurt.

It's not necessarily the raw materials that incur the brunt of the cost of carbon. Cheap carbon can be made just as strong as the expensive stuff; you just have to lay more sheets. But there is a necessity for precision when producing carbon that will be bearing loads, such as pattern, amount of epoxy, and heat. Thus you want this stuff to come from a place with people who know what they are doing and know what to look for, not from some podunk factory that uses all the crap other people don't want to use and thus sells it for much less. Again, why do you think they are selling for so cheap? Didn't yo mama's teach you that you get what you pay for?

She did and by paying less, I get more.

Can't believe that this stupid thread has gotten such response.

Buy the best and cry once.

Even good brands can break, but probably not as often as cheap brands.
Worth a thousand words. Imagine going really fast and this happening...







https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...hp?f=3&t=60779