2ndGen

Not denying one word you wrote, but the Tarmac was designed
with carbon and that material's characteristics in mind, no?

How does that design and it's design attributes translate to aluminum?
The CAAD's design was created specifically "for" use with aluminum.

I'd like to see a test of both bikes back to back.
Usually, we get that from magazines from across the pond.
Has the Spec improved enough to knock the king of the hill off?

There has to be an objective test.

Adrianinkc

I can only speak based on what I know. ( Not like others ) I just bought a specialized allez with apex and I am very impressed, the bike handles great and is very stiff. Im sold on SRAM, if I keep my trek it will be converted.

2ndGen

Never!

That's like showing up at the battlefield and calling a truce before one sword is unsheathed!

Someone here who has access to both bikes (if possible) that can test both under identical conditions should do us the favor and give us their impression. This should be someone who races and who has experience with higher end bikes to use as some sort of reference.

I read a great article on the Allez Comp and it got great reviews...but as a recreational bike (not as a race bike). It would need to be significantly upgraded to compete with a stock CAAD (in the same price range) or so said the magazine article. I'll dig it up and post it for everybody here.

2ndGen

How's this...a comparison test on just "paper"?

We'll put one frameset against the other and just go by the specs.
Of course, this won't tell us how they feel, but we can at least judge
"that" with there being no room for argument because numbers don't lie.
(weight, features, design, construction, etc...)

Can everybody at least agree to that?

garysol1 

No. I don't ride numbers, I ride bikes. Lets be honest here.... no one here will be any faster on one bike over the other. The frames are going to be very close in ride quality and stiffness. Some people will prefer the SRAM and some will prefer the Shimano. This whole conversation is stupid. There will not be a winner as it is subjective. Neither bike is crap and either bike will get the job done.

2ndGen

Okay Gary. You're out.

I'll dig up the numbers and see how they compare (weight, dimensions, tech, features, etc...).
While "riding" experience is subjective, data isn't. At the very least, that won't be arguable.

[By any chance, are you a Specialized Dealer?]

garysol1 

So ill just play Devils Advocate here for a minute........

So what will make the "data" better or worse? Steeper is not always better and slacker is not always worse just as stiffer is not always better and vice versa......etc..... If a half degree one way or another makes the bike better don't you think the engineers would have already done that?
Yes, I am a Specialized dealer and yes I have ridden CAAD10's. I am one of those guys who appreciates aluminum bikes for there price points vs performance and I also feel there is no looser between these 2 bikes......
I know..... I am no fun

WhyFi

Spoken like a Search Engine Scholar.

Numbers don't lie, but that's only because they don't tell the story. How do you not understand that it's subjective? Especially when splitting hairs over close calls, "stiff," to one person is "jarring," to another. "Squishy," to one person is "forgiving," to another.

revchuck 

You could always click on the link in his signature block...

2ndGen

A) Well, considering that we are talking about competition, a bike with a more "race" geared design would be considered "better". Unless you want the comparison to what would be a better recreational ride, in which case, the more relaxed geo would be considered "better".

B) Oh...okay.




Did. Just didn't want to automatically "assume".

2ndGen

You're still talking about subjective judgments.

I'm talking about data.

Personally, I wouldn't be so fearful of seeing how these two bikes match up on paper.
It wouldn't be to determine how they ride (that'd be stupid).
It'd be to determine what their specifications are.

I'd LOVE it if I were a CAAD10 owner.

Am I right?

Are all those that oppose such a comparison non-CAAD10 owners or Spec owners/persons
with a vested interest in Specialized being considered "better" than their competition?

garysol1 

Ok....you win. You make my head hurt. The Cannondale is the bestest paper bike ever.

WhyFi

And what, exactly, is that going to tell you? Numbers mean nothing in a vacuum.

I would wager that they're people that know that it's an exercise in futility, because it doesn't tell you anything.

RJM

Are Cannondale dealers selling bare frames or do you have to buy it with the group and components already picked?

kabex

So can we end this discussion now?
Allez frameset = $550
CAAD 10 frameset = $900

Allez APEX = $1400, probably 9 kilos
CAAD Rival = $1800, 7.7 kilos

The CAAD is slightly higher end all things considered and a better bike regarding components, frame weight & fork but it's also more expensive putting it in range of the entry-level carbon bikes- the Allez is far enough from the carbon bikes to consider it on a different level.

2ndGen

Wow. Allez's are cheap. I guess that would explain why all Specialized did was to mimic an existing design instead of designing like Cannondale has with aluminum in mind.

I'd like to see the two identically equipped and see how their frames' performance compares.

I just read a test on a CAAD10 where it was the fastest (and cheapest and only non-Carbon bike) in group of bikes tested. The same rider consistently rode faster (measured) on the CAAD10 over the bikes costing twice as much.

Simply beautiful...

PhotoJoe 

Hey Salt Air - sorry about this whole thread (wouldn't blame you if you tuned out 2 pages ago). Welcome to BF. Where a useful thread degrades into this.

Please do let us know what you end up doing. I'm interested in what you tested, what you bought and why. And pictures are required!

WhyFi

darb85

link? And the Allez was designed with aluminum in mind but also to have the same geo as the tarmac which actually has the same geo as the old E5 sworks bike that was...wait for it....aluminum....

but its obvious you are a caad fan boy and never going to even admit that the allez is a respectable bike. So im done with you.

mazdaspeed

Well obviously the frame is the only variable here, case closed, the caad10 is 'faster' than the allez!

UNLTD1487

I love all these arguments on which is better because I am exactly torn between these 2 bikes!

If Specialized wants the Allez to be a top aluminum contender, it should really consider giving it more group options other than just SRAM Apex.

Propofol

I would say the Allez fan has absolutely no idea what is wrong with the last sentence above.

Excelsius

Obviously,if you own brand X bike, you are going to claim that X is the greatest.

If we try to look at this more objectively, CAAD does come ahead. In forums, like here, the CAAD has a lot of following. That says something about the bike. Also, if a bike is marketed to high-end riders/racers, you would expect the bike to come with high-end gears. Allez doesn't offer anything beyond Shimano 105/Apex. To some people, like me, resale value is also important. You're spending a lot of money and it is comforting to know that the bike will retain its value for a long time.

My final dealbreaker for Specialized was when I finally found a great LBS and found out that they had just stopped carrying Specialized. They used to for decades. The reason? Over the years they had a lot of problems with Specialized honoring their warranty on the frame or doing so in a timely manner.

I'd say I was pretty anal about my research since when I make a purchase, I almost have OCD - it has to be the best value or I can't enjoy it. The Allez could still be worth getting. There could be reasons like if you're getting the frame alone, or if you really think it rides better, or if the CAAD10 is too expensive for you (the cheapest CAAD10 is still more expensive than the highest end Allez).

2ndGen

Didn't someone here state that it was a replica of a Tarmac (not just geo, but tubing design and all)?

roadwarrior

The Six 13 is essentially a CAAD8. The original version used that frame with the carbon inserts, with one also in the center of the seat tube. The next year they removed the carbon seat tube insert, and went to the all aluminum tapered seat tube. That's when Cannondale started to get into tube shaping which manifested itself in the CAAD9. However, the shaped top tube design in the 9 was basically an idea that began in the Synapse.
In fact, when that bike came out Simoni rode the Six 13 and Cunego rode the CAAD8. By the time the 9 came out the System Six was their top bike (all carbon front triangle with the shaped steerer). Simoni's Six13 was the bike that they used in the "Legalize My Cannondale" campaign. Trust me, I have owned every frame they've made for the last 10 years.

Cipollini, when riding for Saeco rode Cannondale and won most of his Giro stages on CAAD3's...he rode for Saeco from 1996-2001. Thirty of his 42 Giro stage wins came before 2000 and 19 of those came when riding for Saeco. Mercatone, GB (I rode for their espoir team) and Del Tongo were the other teams he rode for prior to Saeco.

https://allcdale.com/cannondale-caad3

Pros ride what they are told to ride. I know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUb--qAT7Aw