Helmets Work!
03-27-11 | 08:59 PM
#201
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
So you know me so well that you can dismiss me as an " anti-helmet stereotype " huh. Interesting.
And I remind you of pro smokers. Even more interesting
Couple of questions.
1) Which article or web site do smokers quote to justify their addictions safety?
2) What makes you think I did an immediate search for the link to this discussion? I did not by the way.
Really you and I are more alike than you think. I have been a pro-helmet "zealot" from 1985, when decent helmets arrived on the scene, until this year.
I have been an anti-smoking zealot since 1958. You were most likely an un united sperm and ova at this time.
I have been pro motorcycle helmet since 1971, the year I started riding motorcycles (Still do), and remain so.
I have been pro seat belt use since they were available and remain so.
Why? Because I love life and hate that which is opposed to it.
So why the difference now for me with regards to bicycle helmet use and why would I, as a physician, suggest something that some would regard as dangerous and foolhardy.
Well, in defending helmet use and quoting the oft quoted article in New England Journal of Medicine (Bicycle helmet safety, Thompson, 1989)
I stumbled across contrarian views in the Safety and Advocacy forum ( Helmets cramp my style ). Reading some obviously informed but opposing views made me wonder more about this topic. So I spent quite a few hours reading the entire thread, thinking about what I read, thinking about my own experience and chasing down the various articles, both pro and con. In doing this I tried to keep an open mind.
After reading and rereading I came to the conclusion that ....
1) No one is suggesting that children or new riders go without helmets. They should not.
2) In this area of science, anecdotes rule.
3) No well designed study shows bicycle helmets save lives.
4) Helmet manufacturers themselves note that helmets will NOT prevent concussions. How often do you read here that I was not "Concussed" because I had my helmet on.
5) Studies of populations where helmet legislation was enacted fail to show any difference in injury or death rate and do show a dramatic reduction in bicycle usage.
6) Every whole population study of motorcycle helmet use or seat belt use DOES show marked reduction of head injury and fatality rates. Why is this NOT the case with bicycle helmets. Could it be they are not very effective?
So do I still remind you of a smoker?
Really I am not at all a zealot about this. I don't go around while riding telling people that they are wearing the only cycling accessory that fails to do what it is advertised to do. I really don't care if you wear one or not. But I would prefer that you not make assumptions about me that are somewhat ignorant. Still, I assure you I will like you no less if you do. And I am sure that our common likes ( cycling) would more than likely allow us to enjoy each others company on a ride. Hey, I won't even tell you to loose the helmet.
And I remind you of pro smokers. Even more interesting
Couple of questions.
1) Which article or web site do smokers quote to justify their addictions safety?
2) What makes you think I did an immediate search for the link to this discussion? I did not by the way.
Really you and I are more alike than you think. I have been a pro-helmet "zealot" from 1985, when decent helmets arrived on the scene, until this year.
I have been an anti-smoking zealot since 1958. You were most likely an un united sperm and ova at this time.
I have been pro motorcycle helmet since 1971, the year I started riding motorcycles (Still do), and remain so.
I have been pro seat belt use since they were available and remain so.
Why? Because I love life and hate that which is opposed to it.
So why the difference now for me with regards to bicycle helmet use and why would I, as a physician, suggest something that some would regard as dangerous and foolhardy.
Well, in defending helmet use and quoting the oft quoted article in New England Journal of Medicine (Bicycle helmet safety, Thompson, 1989)
I stumbled across contrarian views in the Safety and Advocacy forum ( Helmets cramp my style ). Reading some obviously informed but opposing views made me wonder more about this topic. So I spent quite a few hours reading the entire thread, thinking about what I read, thinking about my own experience and chasing down the various articles, both pro and con. In doing this I tried to keep an open mind.
After reading and rereading I came to the conclusion that ....
1) No one is suggesting that children or new riders go without helmets. They should not.
2) In this area of science, anecdotes rule.
3) No well designed study shows bicycle helmets save lives.
4) Helmet manufacturers themselves note that helmets will NOT prevent concussions. How often do you read here that I was not "Concussed" because I had my helmet on.
5) Studies of populations where helmet legislation was enacted fail to show any difference in injury or death rate and do show a dramatic reduction in bicycle usage.
6) Every whole population study of motorcycle helmet use or seat belt use DOES show marked reduction of head injury and fatality rates. Why is this NOT the case with bicycle helmets. Could it be they are not very effective?
So do I still remind you of a smoker?
Really I am not at all a zealot about this. I don't go around while riding telling people that they are wearing the only cycling accessory that fails to do what it is advertised to do. I really don't care if you wear one or not. But I would prefer that you not make assumptions about me that are somewhat ignorant. Still, I assure you I will like you no less if you do. And I am sure that our common likes ( cycling) would more than likely allow us to enjoy each others company on a ride. Hey, I won't even tell you to loose the helmet.
03-27-11 | 09:07 PM
#202
Fat man in a little coat
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 951
Likes: 0
From: Chicago NW Burbs
Bikes: Trek 7.3 FX, Trek 1.2T
Helmets and condoms work in the same way. They only protect to an extent. If the bang is hard enough both the helmet and the condom will break, leaving you screwed no matter what! 
03-27-11 | 09:33 PM
#204
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
03-27-11 | 11:04 PM
#207
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,471
Likes: 1
From: Gig Harbor, WA
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Trucker, Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo, Dahon Mu P 24 , Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Rodriguez Tandem, Wheeler MTB
The most painful crash I've had was in a company garage when doing less than 1 mph. Fortunately I had a helmet. I felt my head bounce off the cement, cracking a rib in the process. I had begun a shallow turn, and must have hit a small water patch.
03-28-11 | 06:00 PM
#208
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Surgeonstone, you keep following the same route smokers take in their discussions with non-smokers. Could you please try harder to make my comparison not be so obviously correct? Thanks, and enjoy your night Mr. Anonymous Internet Tough Guy.
03-28-11 | 06:50 PM
#210
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
This would be a smokers statement as regards to helmets-" It's my right not to wear a helmet..who are you to to tell me what to do" end of argument.
I have never had a smoker do research on why they should or should not be allowed to smoke. In 25 years of medical practice it has not happened.
You, on the other hand, proclaim any thought process longer than a sentence to be the route that smokers take.
03-28-11 | 06:52 PM
#211
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
And I agree with you. I really don't give a rats ass who does or does not wear a helmet or who choses to smoke. The idea that the smoker/helmet debate are flip sides of the same coin are completely absurd.
03-28-11 | 07:38 PM
#212
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 402
Likes: 2
Bikes: CAAD10 Rival
18hockey
This would be a smokers statement as regards to helmets-" It's my right not to wear a helmet..who are you to to tell me what to do" end of argument.
I have never had a smoker do research on why they should or should not be allowed to smoke. In 25 years of medical practice it has not happened.
You, on the other hand, proclaim any thought process longer than a sentence to be the route that smokers take.
This would be a smokers statement as regards to helmets-" It's my right not to wear a helmet..who are you to to tell me what to do" end of argument.
I have never had a smoker do research on why they should or should not be allowed to smoke. In 25 years of medical practice it has not happened.
You, on the other hand, proclaim any thought process longer than a sentence to be the route that smokers take.
As a side note, assuming you're a doctor, if you told one of your patients that wearing a helmet is not only purposeless, but can be dangerous, your arse would be llitigated in court if that patient fell and sustained any injuries. And yes, you would either settle or lose in court. I know you would never make such bold personal claims, but this is the internets - everyone is a lion and has a huge e-peen.
03-28-11 | 07:49 PM
#213
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
Holy Dali, really, just let it go dude. You're a surgeon, or so you say, yet you ignore laws of physics, scientific evidence, and even politics and continue making unsubstantiated claims about helmets. Your grammar is limping and you're spending way too much time on a forum for a surgeon who usually works very long hours (I happen to do research at a med school). Your posts are bereft of any science and the best attempt you made was that link to a site similar to conspiracy theory advocation. In the worst case scenario, you could claim confusion and state that you're not sure that helmets work or not (based on rare "side effects"). The truth is that no one cares what your or anybody else's personal preference is. If you smoke crack, it is your right to do that. But if you go on TV at every opportunity you get and promulgate that crack has no health side effects because you have tiger blood, you can rest assured that some people are going to be annoyed and assume you're a lune, especially given that you're saying you're a doctor! Do you understand this distinction?
As a side note, assuming you're a doctor, if you told one of your patients that wearing a helmet is not only purposeless, but can be dangerous, your arse would be llitigated in court if that patient fell and sustained any injuries. And yes, you would either settle or lose in court. I know you would never make such bold personal claims, but this is the internets - everyone is a lion and has a huge e-peen.
As a side note, assuming you're a doctor, if you told one of your patients that wearing a helmet is not only purposeless, but can be dangerous, your arse would be llitigated in court if that patient fell and sustained any injuries. And yes, you would either settle or lose in court. I know you would never make such bold personal claims, but this is the internets - everyone is a lion and has a huge e-peen.
03-28-11 | 08:01 PM
#214
Passista
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,247
Likes: 1,211
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
To me, pro-helmet zealots are a lot like some ex-smokers - they've seen the light and don't accept anyone smoking, never.
FTR, I don't smoke and never have.
FTR, I don't smoke and never have.
03-28-11 | 08:10 PM
#215
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
18hockey
This would be a smokers statement as regards to helmets-" It's my right not to wear a helmet..who are you to to tell me what to do" end of argument.
I have never had a smoker do research on why they should or should not be allowed to smoke. In 25 years of medical practice it has not happened.
You, on the other hand, proclaim any thought process longer than a sentence to be the route that smokers take.
This would be a smokers statement as regards to helmets-" It's my right not to wear a helmet..who are you to to tell me what to do" end of argument.
I have never had a smoker do research on why they should or should not be allowed to smoke. In 25 years of medical practice it has not happened.
You, on the other hand, proclaim any thought process longer than a sentence to be the route that smokers take.
Keep playing the anonymous internet tough guy roll, you may just "win" the internet one of these days and then you can tell all of your patients about it.
03-28-11 | 08:41 PM
#216
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
You crack me up, besides being an obviously angry individual, you also seem to think that the only things that exist in life are things that personally involved you.
Keep playing the anonymous internet tough guy roll, you may just "win" the internet one of these days and then you can tell all of your patients about it.
Keep playing the anonymous internet tough guy roll, you may just "win" the internet one of these days and then you can tell all of your patients about it.
03-28-11 | 08:58 PM
#217
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 1
From: Orange County - SoCal
Bikes: 2011 Cannondale CAAD10
I've got 8000 miles on the road in the past year. Every single one of them on my road bike with a helmet.
I was riding my 45-pound Nirve single-speed Cruiser down the bike path at about 10 mph and this dude pulled up on a road bike next to me and told me I really need to be wearing a helmet. I asked him if I was doing anything illegal. He said no so I said thank you for your unsolicited opinion. He continued to tell me about his friend that fell in Newport and was in a coma for 2 years and then died. I then told him, and I mean in an EXTREMELY rude manner to continue to ride his bike and leave me the #@$% alone. He knew nothing about me and made some unsolicited judgement call. I run faster than I tool around on my cruiser and I'll take the chance that I may fall on big fat 3.0 tires a foot above the ground.
I was riding my 45-pound Nirve single-speed Cruiser down the bike path at about 10 mph and this dude pulled up on a road bike next to me and told me I really need to be wearing a helmet. I asked him if I was doing anything illegal. He said no so I said thank you for your unsolicited opinion. He continued to tell me about his friend that fell in Newport and was in a coma for 2 years and then died. I then told him, and I mean in an EXTREMELY rude manner to continue to ride his bike and leave me the #@$% alone. He knew nothing about me and made some unsolicited judgement call. I run faster than I tool around on my cruiser and I'll take the chance that I may fall on big fat 3.0 tires a foot above the ground.
03-28-11 | 09:09 PM
#218
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
I've got 8000 miles on the road in the past year. Every single one of them on my road bike with a helmet.
I was riding my 45-pound Nirve single-speed Cruiser down the bike path at about 10 mph and this dude pulled up on a road bike next to me and told me I really need to be wearing a helmet. I asked him if I was doing anything illegal. He said no so I said thank you for your unsolicited opinion. He continued to tell me about his friend that fell in Newport and was in a coma for 2 years and then died. I then told him, and I mean in an EXTREMELY rude manner to continue to ride his bike and leave me the #@$% alone. He knew nothing about me and made some unsolicited judgement call. I run faster than I tool around on my cruiser and I'll take the chance that I may fall on big fat 3.0 tires a foot above the ground.
I was riding my 45-pound Nirve single-speed Cruiser down the bike path at about 10 mph and this dude pulled up on a road bike next to me and told me I really need to be wearing a helmet. I asked him if I was doing anything illegal. He said no so I said thank you for your unsolicited opinion. He continued to tell me about his friend that fell in Newport and was in a coma for 2 years and then died. I then told him, and I mean in an EXTREMELY rude manner to continue to ride his bike and leave me the #@$% alone. He knew nothing about me and made some unsolicited judgement call. I run faster than I tool around on my cruiser and I'll take the chance that I may fall on big fat 3.0 tires a foot above the ground.
03-28-11 | 09:19 PM
#219
Beer >> Sanity
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,449
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Bikes: 2014 Evo DA2, 2010 Caad9-4, 2011 Synapse-4, 2013 CaadX-disc
I confess...I do wear a helmet...sometimes. Like when I am riding with my kids or others that feel them to be important. When riding my normal, very isolated rides I go without. My typical 2-3 hr ride is one where I typically am passed by 10-15 cars total. In a city...I would wear a helm.....shoot there I go again....just can't let it alone.
And shouldn't you be setting a good example for your kids whether or not you are riding with them? My daughter is in HS and some of her friends don't wear a helmet. I do every time I ride and so far that seems to be the example she follows. Even asked for a new helmet for christmas.
03-29-11 | 08:22 PM
#223
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
03-29-11 | 08:25 PM
#224
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,222
Likes: 30
From: South Bend IN
Bikes: 1976 FRESCHI, 2004 Crumpton.
Recommend a controlled experiment. Cut your helmet in half lengthwise. Wear one half and see which side of the head gets injured first. Ship the other half to 18 hockey. He lacks a brain so the half helmet will be more than enough to protect what brainstem tissue he functions on.
03-30-11 | 03:01 PM
#225
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
I love it, you have said you are done with me and this thread yet you have to get in the last word with me and keep posting in the thread, you also must get in more insults. It's pretty rare that you find a surgeon with such low self-esteem.
Let's be honest you probably lied about being a surgeon too.
Enjoy your desperately needed last word, I'm done with you in this thread.
Let's be honest you probably lied about being a surgeon too.
Enjoy your desperately needed last word, I'm done with you in this thread.