Good-Value Brands
04-05-11 | 09:51 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
From: Portland, ME
well, specific models. Jamis, Giant, Felt and Fuji all have full carbon bikes around $1,700 and entry level aluminum bikes with more competitive components. KHS certainly has a good value on all their bikes. I personally don't think Cervelo is a great value on any of their bikes though (but they are awesome).
04-05-11 | 10:45 PM
#27
Over the hill
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 24,594
Likes: 1,361
From: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: Pinarello Nytro, Momentum Transend
The flip-side of this question is: for which brands are you paying the most premium for their "name"?
No offense to any of the companies mentioned, but it has seemed to me that both Trek and Specialized command a bit of a price premium due to their well-known brands, compared to Cannondale, Felt, Scott, Jamis, Giant, etc. (Perhaps Cannondale is sort of between Trek/Specialized and the others.)
No offense to any of the companies mentioned, but it has seemed to me that both Trek and Specialized command a bit of a price premium due to their well-known brands, compared to Cannondale, Felt, Scott, Jamis, Giant, etc. (Perhaps Cannondale is sort of between Trek/Specialized and the others.)
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
04-06-11 | 08:39 AM
#28
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
From: Portland, ME
I seem to have observed the opposite. When shopping for a bike last year, it seemed that Specialized and Trek offerings in my price range had 105 components while Cannondale offered Tiagra at the same price, and wanted $200 more for 105. Cannondale has been well-known for a couple decades now and has been probably the #1 choice for amateur racers (look at all the CAAD recommendations here on the forum) for almost as long.
04-06-11 | 09:10 AM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 948
Likes: 1
10x better in terms of what? Stiffness? Comfort? Handling? Doesn't matter, because I doubt any of us could distinguish a 2x difference.
04-06-11 | 09:14 AM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Central Mexico
Cannondale is way better value-wise than both Trek and Specialized.
Trek 2.1: 105, r600 crank, tektro brakes, alu steerer fork, heavy mediocre alu frame $1370
Specialized Allez Apex: apex, lowest end SRAM crank-set(square taper lol), ~1400 gram frame, tektro brakes, alu tapered steerer fork (600grams lol) $1450
Cannondale CAAD 10-5: 105, most advanced ALU frame around, ~1200 grams, 390 gram full carbon tapered fork, BB30 tektro brakes, fsa gossamer crank $1500 (also around 600-800 grams lighter than the ones above)
Now, regarding the CAAD IMO the value is at the ~1800 price 10-4 with Rival, which gives you a Force carbon crank and SRAM brakes(probably apex?). Of course, this bumps you into entry level carbon but those are all crap really.
Trek 2.1: 105, r600 crank, tektro brakes, alu steerer fork, heavy mediocre alu frame $1370
Specialized Allez Apex: apex, lowest end SRAM crank-set(square taper lol), ~1400 gram frame, tektro brakes, alu tapered steerer fork (600grams lol) $1450
Cannondale CAAD 10-5: 105, most advanced ALU frame around, ~1200 grams, 390 gram full carbon tapered fork, BB30 tektro brakes, fsa gossamer crank $1500 (also around 600-800 grams lighter than the ones above)
Now, regarding the CAAD IMO the value is at the ~1800 price 10-4 with Rival, which gives you a Force carbon crank and SRAM brakes(probably apex?). Of course, this bumps you into entry level carbon but those are all crap really.
04-06-11 | 09:58 AM
#31
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
From: Portland, ME
I wouldn't say entry level carbon is all crap. Some aren't special because they're just the outer weave, but many have the mid or high modulus as well for reinforcement so you get a lighter, stiffer (where wanted), and better frame. Did carbon frames from 5 years ago suck?
04-06-11 | 10:03 AM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,726
Likes: 9,738
From: TC, MN
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
04-06-11 | 10:17 AM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Central Mexico
I was strictly speaking from a value stand-point, ie. higher spec alu is where I'd place my bet. You can get something really nice in alu from neuvation, or titanium from bikesdirect etc for that price compared to an entry level brand name carbon.
04-06-11 | 10:24 AM
#34
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,726
Likes: 9,738
From: TC, MN
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Ah, so they're crap from a value stand-point. So, again, which do you have experience with, that you would avoid, and what is it that makes it a crap value?
04-06-11 | 10:47 AM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 51
My CAAD ended up being a "low value" bike for me because I quickly got tired of the aluminum ride quality (especially on long rides) and decided to upgrade to a carbon frame. I would have gotten better value for my money if I would have just bought the better bike that I could live with long term at the beginning.
Last edited by jrobe; 04-06-11 at 11:03 AM.
04-06-11 | 11:25 AM
#36
Over the hill
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 24,594
Likes: 1,361
From: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: Pinarello Nytro, Momentum Transend
*When I worked for a shop, a rep called Cannondales Crack 'n Fails. Too bad it was poor taste to do that right in front of a customer buying one. His brand has since then been bought a few times and got relegated to big box stores.
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
04-06-11 | 11:34 AM
#37
Recusant Iconoclast
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,560
Likes: 58
From: Tsawwassen, BC
Bikes: Look 695, Wilier Izoard
So far most of the comments are anecdotal, whether from real experience or "heard about it". That's not to be unexpected though. This is exactly the kind of discussion that the bike companies want their customers to have; it creates brand loyalties. It's quite obvious some of us have drunk the various Kool-Aid of said company.
For me, at least for now, I'm brand-agnostic. Admittedly - call it vanity or narcisstic tendencies - coolness and rarity are a couple of the features that's important to me, regardless of brand.
For me, at least for now, I'm brand-agnostic. Admittedly - call it vanity or narcisstic tendencies - coolness and rarity are a couple of the features that's important to me, regardless of brand.
04-06-11 | 11:52 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
From: Portland, ME
Actually, each road bike I've had was a different brand. Trek was first, then Specialized, now Jamis. The Trek and Specialized was the same price point, and the Specialized Allez was far better. I test rode many bikes in the $2k range and was easily sold on the Jamis Xenith Endura 2. The Felt F5 was up there too. So that's why I say Jamis is a great value, but as for Fuji and Giant I say so from friends input and comparing them to bikes from other companies (components, frame construction, and such).
04-06-11 | 12:22 PM
#40
Over the hill
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 24,594
Likes: 1,361
From: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: Pinarello Nytro, Momentum Transend
True, but just because you don't feel it doesn't mean there isn't a difference. So obviously, the definition of value is different for different people. Some care about components, some care about the name, etc.
I'm a lot like that. I loved my Tsunami because I rarely saw another one, and never in its paint scheme. I have a Razorback mountain bike that has a conversation piece for a rear shock. It was only recently that I bought my first off-the-shelf bike, partly because I no longer have the time to put things together and find parts, partly because I have been impressed with Specialized products for years (tri-spokes, water bottles, helmets, saddles, bottle cages) and wanted the opportunity to own one of their bikes. So far, I'm happy.
I'm a lot like that. I loved my Tsunami because I rarely saw another one, and never in its paint scheme. I have a Razorback mountain bike that has a conversation piece for a rear shock. It was only recently that I bought my first off-the-shelf bike, partly because I no longer have the time to put things together and find parts, partly because I have been impressed with Specialized products for years (tri-spokes, water bottles, helmets, saddles, bottle cages) and wanted the opportunity to own one of their bikes. So far, I'm happy.
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
04-06-11 | 12:50 PM
#42
Over the hill
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 24,594
Likes: 1,361
From: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: Pinarello Nytro, Momentum Transend
What does?
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
04-06-11 | 02:18 PM
#44
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,701
Likes: 1
From: Moraga, CA
Bikes: 2008 Cervelo RS, 2011 Scott CR1 Elite, 2014 Volagi Liscio
The flip-side of this question is: for which brands are you paying the most premium for their "name"?
No offense to any of the companies mentioned, but it has seemed to me that both Trek and Specialized command a bit of a price premium due to their well-known brands, compared to Cannondale, Felt, Scott, Jamis, Giant, etc. (Perhaps Cannondale is sort of between Trek/Specialized and the others.) Note that I'm not ordering the brands in terms of quality - just in terms of price premium paid for the name. As one specfic example, when I bought my Scott CR1 Team for right around $2000, I was looking at very comparable Trek and Specialized models being more like $2400. In the Specialized case it was the same component group and the same wheels, and so the comparison was pretty direct.
I'm only including companies in the above list that have broad product lines in the first place, including lower-end, more mass-market products. Certainly there is a significant "name premium" associated with a lot of other brands, such as Cervelo, Pinarello, Colnago, etc., which may or may not be completely justified, depending on your point of view....
No offense to any of the companies mentioned, but it has seemed to me that both Trek and Specialized command a bit of a price premium due to their well-known brands, compared to Cannondale, Felt, Scott, Jamis, Giant, etc. (Perhaps Cannondale is sort of between Trek/Specialized and the others.) Note that I'm not ordering the brands in terms of quality - just in terms of price premium paid for the name. As one specfic example, when I bought my Scott CR1 Team for right around $2000, I was looking at very comparable Trek and Specialized models being more like $2400. In the Specialized case it was the same component group and the same wheels, and so the comparison was pretty direct.
I'm only including companies in the above list that have broad product lines in the first place, including lower-end, more mass-market products. Certainly there is a significant "name premium" associated with a lot of other brands, such as Cervelo, Pinarello, Colnago, etc., which may or may not be completely justified, depending on your point of view....
04-07-11 | 05:20 PM
#46
Over the hill
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 24,594
Likes: 1,361
From: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: Pinarello Nytro, Momentum Transend
I think Jamis used to be a great value, then people caught on and the company realized they were then popular enough to charge what the bid boys charge. Still, nice bikes.
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
04-08-11 | 11:52 PM
#47
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 2
From: Buffalo New York
This is a tough question to answer because any high end bikes, no matter who the manufacturer is, is a great value. unfortunately they come with a massive pricetag to match. what the question should be is " where can I find a highend kickass bike for an insanely low price?" People will dissagree, but the kestrels at bikesdirect are sometimes half off the original retail price. I think that is a hella deal.
__________________
2010 Kestrel RT900SL, 800k carbon, chorus/record, speedplay, zonda
2000 litespeed Unicoi Ti, XTR,XT, Campy crank, time atac, carbon forks
2010 Kestrel RT900SL, 800k carbon, chorus/record, speedplay, zonda
2000 litespeed Unicoi Ti, XTR,XT, Campy crank, time atac, carbon forks
04-09-11 | 09:36 AM
#48
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From another perspective think about how you can receive value by buying your gear slightly used (one to three years old)... amazing deals can be had on CL, ebay and working other local LBS trades. If you can find what you want first then set your mind on going shopping for it in the used market can save you a ton of $$. Patience is key and will usually reward you with a much higher end offering in the end.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MelissaDM
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
32
01-07-12 11:15 PM
luis911
Road Cycling
13
03-27-10 09:40 AM
