Almost became road kill today
04-30-11, 10:02 AM
#51
Senior Member
Good write-up and glad you're okay.
Unlike some other "close call" posts I've read as of late, this one actually gets me thinking.
Solution? Really only one... avoid these types of roads if possible. If you get permanently disabled or die, your family feels the most pain.
Unlike some other "close call" posts I've read as of late, this one actually gets me thinking.
Solution? Really only one... avoid these types of roads if possible. If you get permanently disabled or die, your family feels the most pain.
04-30-11, 01:23 PM
#52
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I'm glad you are OK. Not much you can do there. If you were on the line then drivers will try to pass unsafely and sideswipe you or crowd you out.
I personally try to avoid roads like that but in some areas they are unavoidable. The only other thing you can do is make yourself as highly visible as possible.
I personally try to avoid roads like that but in some areas they are unavoidable. The only other thing you can do is make yourself as highly visible as possible.
04-30-11, 06:47 PM
#53
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More than likely he was tailgating the car in front that passed you. He saw you at the last second, veered right, and thank goodness, missed you. At that point, his blood pressure shot through the roof at the thought of killing someone, and took it out on the idiot riding his bicycle on a 55 mph road, with no shoulder, during rush hour!! Are you completely clueless? Please invest in some common sense, you must have been absent when it was handed out..
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04-30-11, 06:49 PM
#54
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Who took up a whole lane during rush hour while pedaling along at 12 mph? I missed that post. Is that on a different thread?
04-30-11, 07:19 PM
#55
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I assume you missed the day when they taught reading comprehension. I plainly stated that this road doesn't have much traffic. Indeed, in the 5 minutes preceding this event, not a single car passed me. I was being facetious when I wrote "rush hour." I clearly described the circumstances, maybe you should try reading the narrative once again.
These are the kind of roads I ride on all the time, very quiet, almost no traffic and quite narrow. The quiet almost gives a sense of false security . One thing I have done is start riding even during daylight hours with a Dinotte 400 lumen tail light. It seems to draw attention to my presence and I find cars are giving me a much wider berth than in the past.
04-30-11, 07:20 PM
#56
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The guy you ran off the road is a hero, not an attempted murder. The first car was to blame. A sudden lane change leaves little reaction time for a following driver at 55. Two seconds of distance is barely enough to stop a car with ABS let alone a truck with a trailer. Traffic laws and Cyclist's finger pointing don't trump the laws of physics and human's responses to a panic situation. Take the whole lane.
2 seconds is too short. The average, mid-sized, American car has a stopping distance including reaction time of about 200 feet at 55 mph. That would take about 2.5 seconds from seeing the hazard to being completely stopped. This was a truck and trailer, with a much longer stopping distance. 2 seconds is not even close to far enough away. Sadly, I often see traffic spaced shorter than 2 seconds from eachother. The result is preventable accidents, not only with cyclists, but other cars and pedestrians.
The second driver should have been following farther behind the first driver, and should have been preparing to slow or stop when he saw the first driver move to the left. That is always a sign that there is slower traffic in front of the passing car, and you can never be sure exactly how slow the traffic in front of the passing driver is.
04-30-11, 07:28 PM
#58
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Second, I think the OP missed one critical step - looking back. I ride on shoulder-less roads frequently (in CT there aren't that many shoulders like they have in states like CA). I know that one of the roads I ride on is 22 feet wide, for both sides, because there's been various meetings about making a difference on that road with speed/safety. Anyway, what I'll do is whenever I hear a car coming from behind, especially on a very quiet road, I'll stand and look back. It makes it very, very clear that I am looking back. I'll also, depending on my instinct, "accidentally" move off my line a bit.
Looking back makes the cyclist human, not just a road obstacle.
Looking back makes the cyclist human, not just a road obstacle.
I have stood up before so that I appear larger to traffic--I think that's a very useful strategy...good suggestion. I think that may actually have been the thing to do: As soon as I saw the situation evolving (oncoming car closing quickly, and a car coming up behind), I should have stood up to seem bigger; that way maybe the first car wouldn't have tried to cheat by me--for sure he saw me in plenty of time, because it was a straight road. I certainly knew that he shouldn't have tried to pass me, and if I could have stopped him, the guy in the truck wouldn't have nearly smashed me.
Third, I'd highly recommend getting a helmet or some other bike cam. I ride all my training rides with a helmet cam. I follow the rules (except maybe speed limits on fast downhills). I stop at stop signs. I don't turn on red when it says "no turn on red". I stay right, as much as practicable. I want to be able to prove this, and video proves this decisively.
It also has some morbid function - if something happens to me, there will be video to speak for me.
I was riding with a teammate in a touristy area one day. I had the helmet cam on for no particular reason except that which I stated above. On a gradual curve, a truck almost hit him. In this picture he's already turned his shoulder away, after the bumper passed close to him.
The camera caught the action as well as the plate number. We reported the near miss to the local police - they shrugged it off until they saw the video. The officer taking down the report said they'd visit the driver and remind him that he should keep an eye out for cyclists. To me that was fine.
In the end cyclists, regardless of the laws, are more vulnerable than motorized vehicle drivers. A cyclist needs to use a combination of judgment and expectations (i.e. rules) to survive.
It also has some morbid function - if something happens to me, there will be video to speak for me.
I was riding with a teammate in a touristy area one day. I had the helmet cam on for no particular reason except that which I stated above. On a gradual curve, a truck almost hit him. In this picture he's already turned his shoulder away, after the bumper passed close to him.
The camera caught the action as well as the plate number. We reported the near miss to the local police - they shrugged it off until they saw the video. The officer taking down the report said they'd visit the driver and remind him that he should keep an eye out for cyclists. To me that was fine.
In the end cyclists, regardless of the laws, are more vulnerable than motorized vehicle drivers. A cyclist needs to use a combination of judgment and expectations (i.e. rules) to survive.
04-30-11, 07:29 PM
#59
Full Member
No. I was 1-2 feet to the left of the white line--there is no shoulder. I was basically shrinking the lane: if i'm taking up 2 feet of space on the right side of the lane, and they must give me (in theory) 3 feet, that means that i am, in effect, taking up 5 feet of space on the right hand side of the lane. If the the lane is 12 feet wide and the car is 7' wide, then they could pass (just barely)...most people recognize that to pass safely, they'll have to just go over the yellow line--that's what I want them to do. There isn't much traffic on this road, so it's not like I'm impeding traffic. The danger with riding on the white line is that people then think they have plenty of room to pass you without going over the yellow lines. For cars, that's typically fine, but for trucks, it's more likely that they'll just run you off the road or hit you with a mirror.
04-30-11, 07:34 PM
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What makes you think California is any different? I live in the country around Placerville, CA. Mostly two lane roads without a shoulder. I do very little cycling in this area. Almost every time I do I have an incident. Cyclists are rare around here; especially solo riders. It seems most cagers around here either aren't on the lookout for cyclists or they don't think bikes belong on the road. Sad but true.
04-30-11, 07:36 PM
#61
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One thing I have learned from both cycling and decades of motorcycling as well is to always look back....twice. It has saved my life on several occasions. When cycling, whenever I move left I always turn , look behind and then repeat it. I do not trust my hearing to tell me if something is coming up on me. When riding fast or into the wind and with the quietness of modern cars, it is just unsafe to assume that a lack of sound from behind means safety.
04-30-11, 07:45 PM
#62
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They don't teach reading comprehension in the Marine Corps. These are the kind of roads I ride on all the time, very quiet, almost no traffic and quite narrow. The quiet almost gives a sense of false security . One thing I have done is start riding even during daylight hours with a Dinotte 400 lumen tail light. It seems to draw attention to my presence and I find cars are giving me a much wider berth than in the past.
These are the kind of roads I ride on all the time, very quiet, almost no traffic and quite narrow. The quiet almost gives a sense of false security . One thing I have done is start riding even during daylight hours with a Dinotte 400 lumen tail light. It seems to draw attention to my presence and I find cars are giving me a much wider berth than in the past.
04-30-11, 07:50 PM
#63
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One thing I have learned from both cycling and decades of motorcycling as well is to always look back....twice. It has saved my life on several occasions. When cycling, whenever I move left I always turn , look behind and then repeat it. I do not trust my hearing to tell me if something is coming up on me. When riding fast or into the wind and with the quietness of modern cars, it is just unsafe to assume that a lack of sound from behind means safety.
04-30-11, 07:59 PM
#64
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I agree. I always look back if I'm moving left, or even if I just changing my line--it's definitely a life saver. I've seen cars (by looking back) that I never would have heard--usually because of wind noise or other traffic, or--as you mention--because some cars are really quiet!
04-30-11, 08:02 PM
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I remember once I looked back quickly as I prepared to move left, then rechecked only to find that incredibly, I had missed seeing a semi bearing down on me. I quickly pulled right off the road into the dirt. That day I would have been roadkill had I not looked a second time. Speaking of roadkill, this mornings ride I am going along through a forested section of road when SPLAT.... a disemboweled, partially flayed and eaten red squirrel plops on the pavement immediately in front of me. WTF? I look up and see a hawk flying away. Apparently I had spooked it whilst it fed upon red. Strange.
04-30-11, 08:04 PM
#66
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04-30-11, 08:17 PM
#67
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Walking, driving and cycling on the roads is dangerous. The only thing separating us all is some paint on the road and good intentions. Throw in people rarely stop anymore and it's amazing a lot more impacts don't happen. Keep your insurance paid up and have a spare bike. GL
04-30-11, 08:19 PM
#68
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04-30-11, 08:21 PM
#69
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my scariest close call.
I was riding old kansas city highway head down into the wind so I couldn't hear well. so I stayed as far right as possible. no shoulder. there was an oncoming car and then a car passing that car. He passed the car probably going 70-75 and was 1-2 feet away from me going strait at me. I didn't see him until he was already there between me and the other car. If I were not hugging the edge of the pavement I would have been squashed like a bug. Of course I could have had my head up which I normally do but luckily I was hugging the right. I can't say whether the passer saw me or not, or if he decided to pass based on my position. Its really scary and I've never wanted to tell about it until I read your post. So there's some food for thought.
I was riding old kansas city highway head down into the wind so I couldn't hear well. so I stayed as far right as possible. no shoulder. there was an oncoming car and then a car passing that car. He passed the car probably going 70-75 and was 1-2 feet away from me going strait at me. I didn't see him until he was already there between me and the other car. If I were not hugging the edge of the pavement I would have been squashed like a bug. Of course I could have had my head up which I normally do but luckily I was hugging the right. I can't say whether the passer saw me or not, or if he decided to pass based on my position. Its really scary and I've never wanted to tell about it until I read your post. So there's some food for thought.
Last edited by Nick Bain; 05-01-11 at 12:52 AM.
04-30-11, 08:30 PM
#70
Vandalized since 2002
The scary thing about this thread is that it's probably 50/50 for situations where 2-3 feet left of the fog line would equal roadkill and where on the line would equal roadkill. The only real guarantee that everyone will be safe is if we all do what we are supposed to be doing ... and even that is if you trust that all situations are accounted for in the laws, still pretty scary IMO.
Glad you're safe and can ride home to the family.
Glad you're safe and can ride home to the family.
04-30-11, 09:57 PM
#71
Senior Member
I think this near fatal accident was caused because the driver of the truck couldn't see me until it was too late--possibly because the car in front of him was blocking his view.
04-30-11, 10:03 PM
#72
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Wait a minute here. A truck's view blocked by a car? Not likely. Even in my S10 sized truck (compact truck), I can see over any car. I'll bet the guy in the truck was daydreaming.
05-01-11, 12:44 AM
#73
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from a drivers perspective: read this> to the OP
they don't want to have to slow down because of someone else. In your case you were impeding traffic by riding in the lane when it sounds like there was enough room for the car to get by just by hugging the yellow line. Anyway in general a lot of traffic accidents are caused by people going too slow. What I think happened was when you made that driver slow down all the cars behind him turned there focus on the braking cars in front of them and were oblivious to anything else (oh why is this rubbernecker on the brakes for no reason). Now I blame all the cars for tailgating and that truck should have been extra cautious with a trailer. In general though when cars go slower they follow closer and their frontal vision is hindered greatly. So if you were as far right as possible which I know is hard to do in liberal California, I think it may have prevented the initial car from slowing greatly, he would have passed you and left the vision field open for the next car etc. I am not blaming you, this sounds like just one of those rare situations.
Personally I ride as far right as possible and most of the time people are smart enough to wait for the opportunity too pass when there is no shoulder. I also commonly get the ******* in a pickup that likes to pass me as close as he possibly can even though he has a wide open road. So in the end I think its safer to ride on the side. You said you get to the right when they pass anyway so why make them go into the other Lane?
There are various time when I ride in the middle of the road and its usually in 30 mph high traffic zones just to increase my visibility to others. or to keep from getting snubbed by somebody opening there car door. I will only do this if I am going faster than 15-20. I will "take the lane" people are usually to chicken to try and pass me anyway.
Sometimes if I am feeling especially yellow I will swerve around some so people will have a better chance at spotting me
they don't want to have to slow down because of someone else. In your case you were impeding traffic by riding in the lane when it sounds like there was enough room for the car to get by just by hugging the yellow line. Anyway in general a lot of traffic accidents are caused by people going too slow. What I think happened was when you made that driver slow down all the cars behind him turned there focus on the braking cars in front of them and were oblivious to anything else (oh why is this rubbernecker on the brakes for no reason). Now I blame all the cars for tailgating and that truck should have been extra cautious with a trailer. In general though when cars go slower they follow closer and their frontal vision is hindered greatly. So if you were as far right as possible which I know is hard to do in liberal California, I think it may have prevented the initial car from slowing greatly, he would have passed you and left the vision field open for the next car etc. I am not blaming you, this sounds like just one of those rare situations.
Personally I ride as far right as possible and most of the time people are smart enough to wait for the opportunity too pass when there is no shoulder. I also commonly get the ******* in a pickup that likes to pass me as close as he possibly can even though he has a wide open road. So in the end I think its safer to ride on the side. You said you get to the right when they pass anyway so why make them go into the other Lane?
There are various time when I ride in the middle of the road and its usually in 30 mph high traffic zones just to increase my visibility to others. or to keep from getting snubbed by somebody opening there car door. I will only do this if I am going faster than 15-20. I will "take the lane" people are usually to chicken to try and pass me anyway.
Sometimes if I am feeling especially yellow I will swerve around some so people will have a better chance at spotting me
Last edited by Nick Bain; 05-01-11 at 12:57 AM.
05-01-11, 07:51 AM
#74
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from a drivers perspective: read this> to the OP
they don't want to have to slow down because of someone else. In your case you were impeding traffic by riding in the lane when it sounds like there was enough room for the car to get by just by hugging the yellow line. Anyway in general a lot of traffic accidents are caused by people going too slow. What I think happened was when you made that driver slow down all the cars behind him turned there focus on the braking cars in front of them and were oblivious to anything else (oh why is this rubbernecker on the brakes for no reason). Now I blame all the cars for tailgating and that truck should have been extra cautious with a trailer. In general though when cars go slower they follow closer and their frontal vision is hindered greatly. So if you were as far right as possible which I know is hard to do in liberal California, I think it may have prevented the initial car from slowing greatly, he would have passed you and left the vision field open for the next car etc. I am not blaming you, this sounds like just one of those rare situations.
Personally I ride as far right as possible and most of the time people are smart enough to wait for the opportunity too pass when there is no shoulder. I also commonly get the ******* in a pickup that likes to pass me as close as he possibly can even though he has a wide open road. So in the end I think its safer to ride on the side. You said you get to the right when they pass anyway so why make them go into the other Lane?
There are various time when I ride in the middle of the road and its usually in 30 mph high traffic zones just to increase my visibility to others. or to keep from getting snubbed by somebody opening there car door. I will only do this if I am going faster than 15-20. I will "take the lane" people are usually to chicken to try and pass me anyway.
Sometimes if I am feeling especially yellow I will swerve around some so people will have a better chance at spotting me
they don't want to have to slow down because of someone else. In your case you were impeding traffic by riding in the lane when it sounds like there was enough room for the car to get by just by hugging the yellow line. Anyway in general a lot of traffic accidents are caused by people going too slow. What I think happened was when you made that driver slow down all the cars behind him turned there focus on the braking cars in front of them and were oblivious to anything else (oh why is this rubbernecker on the brakes for no reason). Now I blame all the cars for tailgating and that truck should have been extra cautious with a trailer. In general though when cars go slower they follow closer and their frontal vision is hindered greatly. So if you were as far right as possible which I know is hard to do in liberal California, I think it may have prevented the initial car from slowing greatly, he would have passed you and left the vision field open for the next car etc. I am not blaming you, this sounds like just one of those rare situations.
Personally I ride as far right as possible and most of the time people are smart enough to wait for the opportunity too pass when there is no shoulder. I also commonly get the ******* in a pickup that likes to pass me as close as he possibly can even though he has a wide open road. So in the end I think its safer to ride on the side. You said you get to the right when they pass anyway so why make them go into the other Lane?
There are various time when I ride in the middle of the road and its usually in 30 mph high traffic zones just to increase my visibility to others. or to keep from getting snubbed by somebody opening there car door. I will only do this if I am going faster than 15-20. I will "take the lane" people are usually to chicken to try and pass me anyway.
Sometimes if I am feeling especially yellow I will swerve around some so people will have a better chance at spotting me
To be as safe as I can biking, I've come to realize that I unconsciously use my auto driving experience to shape my biking proactive strategies. For me different roads require different safety strategies. In biking, unfortunately, there will always be reactive situations, hopefully I've cut down on some of them.
05-01-11, 09:27 AM
#75
Senior Member
I think the OP was 100% in the right and doing all the right stuff. There is also a danger to try riding down the fog line with no shoulder - you don't have any margin there either. This is clearly a case of the truck driver not paying attention, insufficient interval etc... Thank God he had enough presence of mind to take to the ditch. After that, anyone would be all amped up so I'd write off the histronics - he was damn scared too.
I think the majority, if not all, of bike laws recognize that cyclists are entitled to sufficient lane space and are entitled to avoid road hazards etc... It's just that drivers don't pay attention and are ignorant of the laws in many cases. Jerks that drive will be jerks to cars or bicycles - they are nonspecific.
I would guess from this description that if the OP had been a small car, the result might not have been much different. If he couldn't brake and had to take to the ditch he was going way, way too fast and not paying attention. He probably came pretty close to rear-ending the car that was behind the OP.
Riding the line with no shoulder is just asking for it. You may make it easier for cars to pass (marginally) but you are going to wind up in the ditch at some point and you likely will get injured.
J.
I think the majority, if not all, of bike laws recognize that cyclists are entitled to sufficient lane space and are entitled to avoid road hazards etc... It's just that drivers don't pay attention and are ignorant of the laws in many cases. Jerks that drive will be jerks to cars or bicycles - they are nonspecific.
I would guess from this description that if the OP had been a small car, the result might not have been much different. If he couldn't brake and had to take to the ditch he was going way, way too fast and not paying attention. He probably came pretty close to rear-ending the car that was behind the OP.
Riding the line with no shoulder is just asking for it. You may make it easier for cars to pass (marginally) but you are going to wind up in the ditch at some point and you likely will get injured.
J.