No name carbon frames?
#1
Retired USAF, C-130 Guy
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No name carbon frames?
I have been looking around and found some nice looking no name frames on eBay.
Does anyone have experience with any of the online/eBay no name carbon frames?
Here are a few.
https://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Black-...item5198f313e8
https://cgi.ebay.com/CARBON-FRAMESET-...item2310414b7d
https://cgi.ebay.com/100-CARBON-FIBER...item45f9e715c8
https://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Road-Bike-Fr...item2ea9042fc7
https://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Fibe...item2c5c446697
Thanks
Does anyone have experience with any of the online/eBay no name carbon frames?
Here are a few.
https://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Black-...item5198f313e8
https://cgi.ebay.com/CARBON-FRAMESET-...item2310414b7d
https://cgi.ebay.com/100-CARBON-FIBER...item45f9e715c8
https://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Road-Bike-Fr...item2ea9042fc7
https://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Carbon-Fibe...item2c5c446697
Thanks
#4
Jet Jockey
I'd totally buy it.
I'm in the BF minority camp that is pretty sure that most companies CF frames are being churned out of the same factory in Taiwan, and that the only true "research" the company in question does is to research how to better "brand", market, and label the frames.
Sure, you don't get a warranty...but at that price, who cares? And given some of the grief some BFers have been through to get warranties honored, I don't think it's really that important anyway. And, for reasons already mentioned, I think the frame failure rate will be roughly identical to the failure rates of almost every other bike company's frames.
I'm in the BF minority camp that is pretty sure that most companies CF frames are being churned out of the same factory in Taiwan, and that the only true "research" the company in question does is to research how to better "brand", market, and label the frames.
Sure, you don't get a warranty...but at that price, who cares? And given some of the grief some BFers have been through to get warranties honored, I don't think it's really that important anyway. And, for reasons already mentioned, I think the frame failure rate will be roughly identical to the failure rates of almost every other bike company's frames.
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Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
#5
I'd totally buy it.
I'm in the BF minority camp that is pretty sure that most companies CF frames are being churned out of the same factory in Taiwan, and that the only true "research" the company in question does is to research how to better "brand", market, and label the frames.
Sure, you don't get a warranty...but at that price, who cares? And given some of the grief some BFers have been through to get warranties honored, I don't think it's really that important anyway. And, for reasons already mentioned, I think the frame failure rate will be roughly identical to the failure rates of almost every other bike company's frames.
I'm in the BF minority camp that is pretty sure that most companies CF frames are being churned out of the same factory in Taiwan, and that the only true "research" the company in question does is to research how to better "brand", market, and label the frames.
Sure, you don't get a warranty...but at that price, who cares? And given some of the grief some BFers have been through to get warranties honored, I don't think it's really that important anyway. And, for reasons already mentioned, I think the frame failure rate will be roughly identical to the failure rates of almost every other bike company's frames.
#6
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I buy into the premise that you're not just buying a frame, but a contract with the bike manufacturer. So while its cheaper to buy a no-name, you're not getting customer service, feedback and someone there if stuff goes south.
#8
Jet Jockey
The fork with that "Bottechia" frame is the Cannondale "Ultra" fork. Trust me.
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Good night...and good luck
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#9
Jet Jockey
The last one is fugly in so many ways beyond just the color.
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Good night...and good luck
Good night...and good luck
#10
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12563558
#13
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https://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...d.php?t=241785
Plenty of opinions and ideas for paint/decals. They'll do it for you. GL
Plenty of opinions and ideas for paint/decals. They'll do it for you. GL
#14
I like mine. Size 58 frame was 1200 grams and the fork was 380 uncut. Its 15.8 lbs with dura-ace and a 1350 gram wheelset. I've been riding it for a year now and probably have about 6000 miles on it with no problems.
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#15
Mr. Dopolina
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I'd totally buy it.
I'm in the BF minority camp that is pretty sure that most companies CF frames are being churned out of the same factory in Taiwan, and that the only true "research" the company in question does is to research how to better "brand", market, and label the frames.
Sure, you don't get a warranty...but at that price, who cares? And given some of the grief some BFers have been through to get warranties honored, I don't think it's really that important anyway. And, for reasons already mentioned, I think the frame failure rate will be roughly identical to the failure rates of almost every other bike company's frames.
I'm in the BF minority camp that is pretty sure that most companies CF frames are being churned out of the same factory in Taiwan, and that the only true "research" the company in question does is to research how to better "brand", market, and label the frames.
Sure, you don't get a warranty...but at that price, who cares? And given some of the grief some BFers have been through to get warranties honored, I don't think it's really that important anyway. And, for reasons already mentioned, I think the frame failure rate will be roughly identical to the failure rates of almost every other bike company's frames.
Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 05-01-11 at 07:56 AM.
#16
Mr. Dopolina
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How can you tell? Super fricken' super Magic X-Ray vision? Really?
Just because it has many of the same cosmetic features you think it is EXACTLY the same product?
Have you never seen a fake Chinese handbag?!? They look almost the same in the shop but fall apart six weeks later. Guess why? Because they are made with inferior materials and produced to a much lower quality standard.
I am in the middle of doing some destructive testing on frames with an assembly factory and I beg them daily to let me publish the data. It's like a fricken ritual. I beg; They decline.
Even frames that supposedly have passed the European safety standards fail way before they are supposed to. Again and again and again. there is one frame I'd love to sell (looks really cool) that we just can't get to pass the standards. We've trashed 6 frames now and the factory has given up. This frame is now dead to me.
So go ahead and roll the dice. I mean everyone knows that Chinese factories are associated with high quality goods that come with a comprehensive warranty.
Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 05-01-11 at 07:55 AM.
#17
Jet Jockey
This is so incorrect I don't even know where to start.
I will say only one thing; Just because they come out of the same factory doesn't mean they are the same product.
Really.
And they don't come from the same factory.
They are cheap Chinese crap being dumped on those who don't know any better.
Have you all learned NOTHING?
I will say only one thing; Just because they come out of the same factory doesn't mean they are the same product.
Really.
And they don't come from the same factory.
They are cheap Chinese crap being dumped on those who don't know any better.
Have you all learned NOTHING?
What the high-end cycling company does is "engineer" branding that is more laterally obvious and vertically apparent. These innovations go beyond the frame itself - they are an integral part of the website copy, helping to achieve a complete psycho-somatic effect on the end user for a truly great cycling experience, pushing the rider's limits beyond what an unbranded frame could ever achieve.
Let's just say that for the differences, those no-name frames are similar enough, and won't cost anyone the race.
By the way, this isn't an "outsourcing" rant about Asian produced frames. My point here is that really nice frames are manufactured overseas - some just cost more because of the extra marketing involved used to "manufacture" a profit margin for traditional bicycle companies. And some don't have the marketing and the margin.
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Good night...and good luck
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#18
Mr. Dopolina
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You can start by demonstrating a SUBSTANTIVE difference, one that goes beyond marketing copy. Sure, products are not exactly identical, but what most of these companies who make really expensive bicycles do is create a collabo with the same Taiwanese factories as everyone else. And the same pool of talent that created the frame can make frames that are remarkably similar just down the street, or across the strait.
What the high-end cycling company does is "engineer" branding that is more laterally obvious and vertically apparent. These innovations go beyond the frame itself - they are an integral part of the website copy, helping to achieve a complete psycho-somatic effect on the end user for a truly great cycling experience, pushing the rider's limits beyond what an unbranded frame could ever achieve.
Let's just say that for the differences, those no-name frames are similar enough, and won't cost anyone the race.
By the way, this isn't an "outsourcing" rant about Asian produced frames. My point here is that really nice frames are manufactured overseas - some just cost more because of the extra marketing involved used to "manufacture" a profit margin for traditional bicycle companies. And some don't have the marketing and the margin.
What the high-end cycling company does is "engineer" branding that is more laterally obvious and vertically apparent. These innovations go beyond the frame itself - they are an integral part of the website copy, helping to achieve a complete psycho-somatic effect on the end user for a truly great cycling experience, pushing the rider's limits beyond what an unbranded frame could ever achieve.
Let's just say that for the differences, those no-name frames are similar enough, and won't cost anyone the race.
By the way, this isn't an "outsourcing" rant about Asian produced frames. My point here is that really nice frames are manufactured overseas - some just cost more because of the extra marketing involved used to "manufacture" a profit margin for traditional bicycle companies. And some don't have the marketing and the margin.
You don't understand manufacturing or the facts on the ground. There are more than a few factories involved....
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Just because it is made by the same people in the same factory (they ARE NOT) doesn't mean they use the same materials and manufacture to the same standards. How hard is this to grasp?
I will leave you with one fact; Chinese factories have an annual employee turnover above 50%.
Draw your own conclusions.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 05-01-11 at 09:04 AM.
#19
Quite true. When the same motivation is provided, Western 'supervision' is not required to ensure quality of manufacture in Asia anymore. That motivation runs from financial reward, to ownership of process and ultimately the brand.
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#20
Then again maybe some of us do.
Not hard to grasp at all. The difference could lie in tasking a Chinese or Taiwanese or Korean EMPLOYEE of your company, a qualified engineer, with ensuring that quality standards are met versus the short sighted pure profit oriented dumping of manufacturing on a contractor who owns a shack with a lathe machine and making site visits for 'quality checks' in June. We've tried putting the squeeze on US auto suppliers for years remember?...they're thriving...NOT.
Which is why Cervelo insists on hand building every carbon frame in Canada correct? On a more serious note, there are employee retention issues in every company. In the US you can't easily walk and find a job today as you can in the far east manufacturing space or Indian software industry for example. One cannot conclude from this that Americans are thrilled with their lot in the workplace.
On cost and quality of overseas manufacture? Sure completed this exercise between 20-10yrs ago in Asia and S.America i.e. when the motivation provided is comparable, quality work whether manufacturing widgets or developing software, can be produced by any group of individuals (or larger company) regardless of geographical location, race, language, gender.
On cost and quality of overseas manufacture? Sure completed this exercise between 20-10yrs ago in Asia and S.America i.e. when the motivation provided is comparable, quality work whether manufacturing widgets or developing software, can be produced by any group of individuals (or larger company) regardless of geographical location, race, language, gender.
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#21
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I hear the same thing time and time again from those who: Just. Don't. Get. It.
You don't understand manufacturing or the facts on the ground. There are more than a few factories involved....![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Just because it is made by the same people in the same factory (they ARE NOT) doesn't mean they use the same materials and manufacture to the same standards. How hard is this to grasp?
I will leave you with one fact; Chinese factories have an annual employee turnover above 50%.
Draw your own conclusions.![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
You don't understand manufacturing or the facts on the ground. There are more than a few factories involved....
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Just because it is made by the same people in the same factory (they ARE NOT) doesn't mean they use the same materials and manufacture to the same standards. How hard is this to grasp?
I will leave you with one fact; Chinese factories have an annual employee turnover above 50%.
Draw your own conclusions.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
When Americans moved off the farm, we became ignorant of how our food is produced. Now that we've moved out of the factories, we've become ignorant of what goes in to our manufactured goods.
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#23
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#24
Senior Member
Most of these so called generic frames are made by reputable manufacturers mainly in China and Taiwan. I recently bought a Pedal Force RS2 frame which was made by a high quality manufacturer who also makes frames for the biggest names in the buisness.
Same with my Tomasso Aggriazato. There really is no way cheap CF frame due to the limited # of manufacturers.
Same with my Tomasso Aggriazato. There really is no way cheap CF frame due to the limited # of manufacturers.
#25
Buy the generic Dogma and call it a day ![Smilie](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)
to me it sounds like the people who buy expensive "branded" frames need to justify why they paid 3k for a frame that you can get for 700 unbranded. ****, i love logos and paint just as much as the next guy but let's be real none of us will be running these frames in the tour and i highly doubt and unbranded frame will make or break your next race. if you have the money to spend on graphics, brand, marketing and maybe a bit more performance....maybe...then go for it. if not, an unbranded frame will suit just fine from what i have gathered. to each his own.
![Smilie](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)
to me it sounds like the people who buy expensive "branded" frames need to justify why they paid 3k for a frame that you can get for 700 unbranded. ****, i love logos and paint just as much as the next guy but let's be real none of us will be running these frames in the tour and i highly doubt and unbranded frame will make or break your next race. if you have the money to spend on graphics, brand, marketing and maybe a bit more performance....maybe...then go for it. if not, an unbranded frame will suit just fine from what i have gathered. to each his own.
Last edited by maverick31210; 05-01-11 at 11:06 AM.