jrobe

I would bet a weeks pay that I could get that bike shifting perfect.

I have over 25,000 on my Cervelo R3 - Ultegra and have never had a single issue like you describe in your original post. Something is not adjusted properly. You just haven't figured it out yet.

M_FactorX19

this could likely be it. you can do everything right in the world with the adjustments (like you say you have) and it will still not be right if the hanger is misaligned. i dont know how many bikes ive built up that this was the issue, normally due to shipment. if you have an extra hanger its worth putting it on even if you are going with a new group. if you dont have an extra hanger use a hanger alignment gauge or take it to the bike shop to check the alignment and bend it back if it is not straight.

twobadfish

Wow thanks! This is HUGE. When I upgraded my 9spd to a 10spd drivetrain I was having the same problem and I thought it was because I had a 10spd chain on it so I took to the LBS. They adjusted the derailleur and I haven't had a problem since. I suppose this is what they did.

twobadfish

Knowing how to read and follow an instruction manual isn't what makes you a good mechanic.

danvuquoc

I've found that Red is harder to get shifting perfectly than 6700 was. Especially in the front der.

patentcad

That ship has sailed Fredly.

55/Rad

A friend asked me to look at his P3 with DA group and bar end shifters. He claimed that while it shifted OK, it misfired often enough that he thought there was a problem. The bike was 3 months old. Several trips to the shop he bought it from only resulted in frustration.

He purchased a set of Zipp shifters and asked me to install them, thinking that was what the problem was. I installed them only to find out that the problem persisted. I spent a couple hours doing all the normal things before I decided to start changing parts out. Chain first...some improvement but not perfect. Then came the rear der, cassette, cables (twice) and housing. Nothing.

Each time I tried something new, I kept wondering what was going on inside that big fat downtube where the cables were routed. At some point, I threaded a long cable sleeve onto the front der cable and up into the downtube. Voila. Problem solved.

The friction caused by the cables overlapping inside the downtube was throwing the system off. Remove the friction and the problem was solved.

Point - it took hours to figure this out. Most LBS won't give a problem that kind of time. Or if they do, they certainly can't charge for all that time.

FWIW...

55/Rad

Shuke

Don't think anybody has mentioned this but with all of the new shimano RD's the cable routing goes straight from the barrel adjuster to the clamp-bolt. If that bolt is even slightly askew it will make the shifting impossible to adjust properly. My normal setup is full Red but I've had the luxury of trying out 6700 and Rival/Force on that bike and I have the following to say regarding the groups:

6700
-very smooth shifting both up and down
-the shifters are a PITA to get onto your bars and installed
-the rear derailleur is a PITA to set up and adjust
-the shifters are big, clunky and bulky
-combined brake/shift lever is annoying if you're down shifting and accidentally brake

Rival Shifters + Force RD
-shifting is very mechanical
-shifters are easy to get on and installed
-rear derailleur is cake to adjust
-shifters are smaller and sleeker
-separate shift and brake lever
-can pull the shift lever back against the bar for shifting while sprinting
-user error with the double tap

Red
-like Rival, is very easy to set up and adjust
-1:1 shifting on the rear makes upshifts very very easy (think of pressing a button instead of moving a lever)
-very mechanical shifting
-blingy
-user error with the double tap

I'll take Red. Rival and Force are also great if you're not looking to spend tons of money.

ilovecycling

It looks straight and in line with the dropout to my naked eye. Are these bent hangers slightly bent or would it be obvious just by looking?

Thanks!

ilovecycling

Just saw some more comments. I know I said I wasn't looking for any advice, but I still really appreciate those of you who took the time to post something helpful and not rude or haterish. I'll have to closely inspect the RD hanger and make sure it's not bent.

cccorlew

I was getting bummed about my shifting on my 6700, until I found this, hidden inside where i couldn't normally see it. I was changing cables because i have a huge trip planned, and I was really happy I found this before it got worse. Now everything shifts like a dream.


Bad cable makes bad sfifting by ccorlew, on Flickr

ilovecycling

Thanks for the tip. That very well could be causing the temperamental RD adjustment. I'll definitely check this out before I give up on it.

Also, I agree with your breakdown of each group for the most part, but I actually don't mind Shimano's combined brake/shift lever. I never had any issues with braking while trying to shift or vice versa.

M_FactorX19

no you would need an alignment gauge to tell. unless it is just stupid bent you wouldnt be able to tell. one of my bikes got kncoked over by the wind and landed on the drive side. low and behold it bent my derailleur hanger just enough to throw the shifting off. you couldnt look at it and tell but it was bent. i just replaced it with a new one since i had one on hand and didnt even have to make an adjustment to the cable tension for it to shifted as good as new.

i was mainly pointing this out because if this was the problem you will have the same issue with any group you put on. some may exsagerate the problem more than others but it will still be an issue. i doubt you have an alignment gauge laying around and it wouldnt be worth buying one just for this but take it down to you local bike shop and they should be happy to check it out for you. i wouldnt have charged anything just to check it for you but if they do it shouldnt be much. if you have a new hanger (most frames/ new bikes come with an extra) you could just replace it and see i that fixes the problem and find out that way. you wouldnt even need to unhook the cable form the RD. just make sure it is in the smallest cog to relieve the tension on the cable.

ilovecycling

Did that just happen after a lot of use or do you think it was just a bad cable? Definitely looks like it could have ruined your trip.

Minion1

It's pretty hard to check if a derailleur hanger is straight with the naked eye since it could be out of true in a number of directions (think twisted as well as bent) and it's likely to be a very small amount that it's out by. LBS will have a tool that the mechanic will use to check it for you, I don't recommend you do it yourself.

ilovecycling

Thanks for the input! It did come with a spare hanger actually, so I'll go ahead and swap it out just to make sure.

Thanks again!

clink83

If you think the 6700 RD is hard to adjust and the shifters are hard to install you probably need to not install your parts drunk. The shifters are easy to put on, slide the collar over the bars to the position you want, then tighten the shifters down onto them. Adjusting the RD is a snap, just tighten the barrels till it shifts into the second cog, then tighten the barrel adjuster untill the chain rubs on the third cog, then adjust it back a fraction of a turn. I don't understand how people have so much problems with easy adjustments.

rolliepollie

You're claiming a groupset is having what I consider major problems shifting between cogs when many others experience satisfactory shifting with it. Don't blame us for putting some doubt on your ability to "perfectly" adjust your shifting. You say you're very picky about such things and others might not notice or care for the problem you have, perhaps because they're somehow used to lower-end groupsets, but a slipping chain shouldn't happen on new/almost new gear..ever.

This comes off as a SRAM "fanboy" jumping the Shimano boat after a quick dip. Please don't label us as 6700 fanboys when we counter your claims especially those who offer suggestions or pry for more info to try helping.

FLvector

OP - nice to see you're getting some good suggestions to consider. And even better to see you're open to some of these suggestions. I hope it works out for you.

rollin

This is part of my semi annual overhaul:

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...nger-alignment

Mr 53x11

I have two bikes, one with 6700 (Specialized Roubaix Expert) that I put 7k miles on last year. One of your problems you describe is one I also have, if you pull the inner levers in a tad as you shift they will not shift, just move over without doing anything. I only find this to be a problem for me when I have winter gloves on, I rarely have an issue with no thick gloves. I do find that at times when down shifting I'll accidently double shift accidently, but this is my fault. In all I like the 6700, and it's fd shifts better than anything else I have used (inc. the below Red equip bike).

My other bike I have had for two weeks and it's equip'd with Sram Red. I really like the Red system but it's not without it's own problems. I find myself double shifting down with it also. Also, the Red fd pretty much stinks compared to the 6700. I'll be switching to the Force fd soon as I have read and heard from other cyclist that it's a better fd. Also, the Sram system is all around louder....much louder. You will not be sneaking up on anyone from behind, as soon as you shift they will hear the CRUNCH/Click and know your there, It's really cut down on my wheel sucking ;-)

If I had to pick, I'd pick the Sram but it's new to me and you know how we all like our new stuff better :-), but if I had a bike that already had 6700 on it I wouldn't switch to Red until the 6700 is worn out. It's a great system and the cost wouldn't justify any benefit you'll get.

A.T.

My new Cervelo S2 came with a slightly bent hanger. The easy way to check it is take down the hanger and put it on a flat surface. I changed a new CNC hanger made by Wheel manufacture.
It shift perfectly and quite now.

ilovecycling

I did notice that the front shifting with 6700 is amazing. It moves up to the big ring very quickly with no fuss.

FWIW, I think the reason SRAM Red is so loud is because of the cassette. The hollow design makes it loud and all the missing teeth ("Open Glide Technology"...pffft) cause the crunching noise you are describing. I have a Red 11-25 cassette on my Reynolds carbon clinchers and I experienced the same thing on my Rival equipped R3. When I put the stock Fulcrum wheelset on there with a Force cassette it was very smooth and quiet. It still has that slight "clunk" feeling compared to Shimano, but the excessive noise and crunching is solely due to the Red cassette.

Also, I've never used a Red FD, but I've read a million times over that the titanium cage flexes too much for accurate shifting. I don't know how true this is, because I've also come across people that say it works perfectly. A lot of riders in the pro peloton were swapping their Red FD for Force, and we all know how quickly tricks like this catch on with normal folks. All of a sudden everyone's advice is, "Red FDs suck..swap it out for Rival or Force."

Vicelord

I've never ridden SRAM on a road bicycle. I've ridden it plenty of times on the dirt with XX setups XO, X9, you name it, and on some of the highest priced XC race bikes available (S-Works, Scott Scale CR, etc.) I've never liked the way the SRAM shifts in terms of setup. The action is nice, and I love the way you get instant feedback from the shifters and derailluers... when SRAM shifts, you know it shifted. I can only assume it works in a similarly consistent fasion on a road bicycle.

The caveat, though, is if you want to shift many gears at a time, you cannot. I personally don't like this at all. My XTR shifters on my race bike can go 5 down 3 up. XX? 1 and 1 at a time, which I find annoying. Like I said, I haven't ridden the road stuff, but I've played with the SRAM Red shifters in stores before, and they also appear to be 1 and 1 at a time.

My Ultegra setup has been very finiky in the first 250 miles. I've had the LBS adjust the barrel on the rear derailluer now twice, and it always finds a way to fall out of sync. I rode my Tiagra/105 setup for 3,000 miles and never had any similar annoyances. Sure, the Tiagra shifters felt mushy and like ****, but at least the shifters and r/d were in perfect sync at all times without having to constantly adjust.

Shuke

I would call it a PITA when I need to disassemble half of the shifter's flimsy, fragile little parts to route the brake cable, spend another 20 minutes stabbing the shift cable up into the shifter to route it and then have the clamp bolt come unthreaded because the clamp was too small to fit around the bend in my bars without taking the bolt out and spend another 15 minutes unsuccessfully trying to screw the bolt back in because it won't take to the threads even though it's sitting right on top of them.

I'll take SRAM.