At 19mph ... any bike will do.
Work on your engine first ... you can always upgrade your wheels later.

Get cheap carbon chinese made wheels and put zipp stickers on them, if you need the wheels to look cool that much.

Couldn't even spell "just". ;)

Just buy used Zipps. I bought mine three years ago for $1100 or so. They're still worth about $800. And for $800-$900, they're a helluva wheel set. 1260 grams, 58mm, dimples, great hoops.

You can always work on your stupid engine. The Zipps help you the minute you bolt them to your friggin bike. Whether you ride 19 mph or 25 mph they make it a little bit easier. And on competitive rides, that can often be the difference between getting shelled and hanging in there, whether it's a Cat 1/2 race or the Saturday Fred RR Worlds.

What's with all these idiot 'work on the engine' or 'just take a crap you'll lose more than 150 grams' posts? We all know that. It's about the friggin SCHWAG. When will you imbeciles wrap your stupid Fred/Road Nazi heads around that?

It does get annoying having to berate you friggin clowns about the same crap. You would think after nearly 50,000 posts, some of that Pcad Wisdom would have sunk into your 41 heads by now. The 33 on the other hand is much like my teen age daughter, they already know everything. That must be convenient.

Classic mindless 41 BS.

Correct. I fully grasp this concept, obviously. BTW, my friend's team gave him some new 2011 Firecrest 404's to use. I might have to try them out, and compare them to my 2010's.

Your oxymorons are hardly necessary here.

I know. That is why, despite our many differences and your inherent and disturbing mental instabilities (or perhaps because of them), you are my 41 Brother.

Could be time for you to go over to the 33 for some mindless arrogance instead.

Yes, Zipps are overrated. It is scientifically proven that people feel better when they shell out money for "perceived" benefits, however marginal it is.

The Placebo Effect has long been proven more effective than many FDA approved medications.

Yeah, the Parlee owner is a sucker while the Denali owner is laughing all the way to the bank! hahahahah. :twitchy:

http://oldtenspeedgallery.com/blog/w...li-mens-01.jpg

http://www.parleecycles.com/storage/...=1257621831608

And that's the question for me today...used 404's C's or "new" cheapy 58mm's?
Are the brand new $1K carbon clinchers "as good" as a set of used (2009+) Zipps in at least good condition?

I think if I was going for clinchers I'd get Williams, Psimet, Boyd, etc. Tubulars? You can't beat a pair of used year old Zipp tubular wheels for $1000 to $1200 in my view. Used Zipp clinchers are a bit pricey and they're really not lighter than the off brands, in some cases they are heavier. Maybe when used Firecrest Zipp all carbon clinchers come down in price in a year or two. Eventually those may get more reasonable.

Add November to that mix. I just finished running the numbers.
November is the lightest & lowest cost and from what I understand, hand-built with a 2 year warranty.
I'm going to be a November Guinea Pig and share my findings.

I assume that all of the rims come from Gigantex or some other Asian supplier.
Spokes, general stock applications (Sapim, etc...).
Hubs? That's where I think the difference comes in.

I've heard only good things about Boyd & Williams.
I think one can't lose with them either, but I chose Novembers to roll with.
And...I love their stealth black matted finish to fit my BBQ paint scheme.

http://www.novemberbicycles.com/stor...=1302109353489

:roflmao2: :hug:
Your alright in my book Pete, despite our many differences and your inherent and disturbing attachment to Shimano products including, but not limited to, the ridiculous, idiotic, waste of engineering, that is Di2.

What do you plan to do with these wheels? While I love my 404 tubies, my Spinergy Stealth FCC's are great training wheels. Last time I checked you could buy them new off ebay for less than used Zipps. They aren't the lightest, but they ride really good, and lets be honest if weight was the key, than you would quit being a sally, and buy some tubies. FWIW I bought my 2010 404 tubies with Tangente 21c's for $1200, and they had like zero wear, they had probably less than 300miles on them.

Novembers are China wheels. The products on the entire website looks like it was sourced through alibaba.com out of Dongguan.

I've come across 404 clinchers for $1K regularly here in NYC (2009+ which as I understand is the desirable hubset to go with if going with Zipps). If I wanted the lightest, I wouldn't be penny pinching. I'd go for a set of Enves or Obermeyers or Mavics.

I want them for Bling (sorry, like our first president, I cannot tell a lie [to people I like]), for the aero benefits they offer and for the ride stability that they supposedly offer. I haven't found many people complaining about owning them. Plus, Lance used them, so, you know. :p

I usually go inexpensive when I try something out (in this case, sub-$1K deep carbon clinchers). I then see if the benefits are worth it, then I upgrade if I need/want to. I lust after Enve 6.7's, but Geeyot Dang! I wouldn't shell out that many sheckles (yet...but then again, I never thought I'd abandon my Camelbak for bottles, buy Oakleys, wear lycra shorts and fingerless gloves either).

:)

How do they perform?

You should ask people over at roadbikereview.com, who bought wheels direct from Chinese manufacturers/distributors.

Link?

And aren't almost all carbon wheels made in China?

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...d.php?t=241788

Carbon wheels are still overrated, including Zipps.

Thank you.