ErichM

We're not trying to pick on you here, but you asked for advice and when we give it, you don't like the answer. So as DC_United said, get the https://www.roadbikeoutlet.com/road-b...no-tiagra.html you posted, it is an awesome bike!

Splice

The attitude only manifests when the people who are supposedly 'helping' me are basically repeating, go to lbs spent thousands, you'll love it!

No one seems to be reading into what I want a bike for and if a cheap one would be okay with lets say an upgraded bottom bracket and shifter.

No one gives me any part names or lists to review or websites that has information on this. Good parts/bad parts, why?

The LBS is going to go into aerodynamics and stiffness that ammount to 1-2 mph increase. Hopefully by now you'd understand what I DO want and what I DONT want.

ErichM

A stiff frame handles better, and will provide more feedback of the road.

The components aren't about 1-2 mph increases, LowCel did a good job of explaining the drive train differences, you didn't like that. A better (more expensive) frame will handle much better (cornering, absorb shocks from the road better, etc).

The frame is of course of highest importance. The difference in handling is something you will feel, and you will appreciate.

Why not go to the shop and just test drive a few bikes? If they're pushy, screw em and go to your original plan and buy online. If you can't tell the difference in the way the frame handles over your current bike, get the online bike.

snajper69

Since you riding on flat surface you should be able to ride on any POS in myopinion. Sure the higher end bike will be better, no doubt about it, but in myopinion the "better" bikes shine during tough climbs, and fast descents.On a flat they are relatively same, just faster, but since speed is not yourpriority than I don't see a point.

My final opinion is:

Fit comes first, buying online won't give you that.
More expensive bike feel better/way better.
They last longer/way longer
The warranty is way better
Buying from local shop gives you better support after sale

If those are not important to you just stay with your walmart bike.

Splice

Perhaps someone could also offer a few other suggestions on bikes online maybe a bit higher in price but still on the lower end 700 - 1000 maybe?

My best suggestion so far has been "My crank cost as much as your budget for a bike good luck."

Needless to say that has been very helpful.

joe_5700

Are you confident enough to true your own wheels and adjust derailleurs etc?

Splice

Thanks Snajper that helps a bit, everyone else acts like my bike will fall apart as I'm riding it and turn cheap bikes into a horror story.

If anyone could give me a list of the MORE important parts that would be recommended for upgrade should I get a cheaper bike. Someone that would make a bigger difference and I wouldn't have to buy a $3,000 bike full of things that won't make too big of a difference?

Greg_R

You need to finalize your frame geometry. Are you looking for a race bike or a comfortable road bike? A bike that is ideal for sprinting is not the same one that would be ideal for long distance riding. Note that "long distance" = centuries or randos. With sprints, a lighter bike is definitely going to be noticeable because you need to accelerate less mass. For long distance riding on flat roads the weight doesn't matter. For uphill climbing the weight is noticeable. If you are competing in sprints then a few extra hundred dollars spent will trim off a lot of weight (i.e. get Shimano 105 level components w. a light weight bike build). All my comments below are assuming long-distance riding (i.e. weight not a major issue).

Correct, for most people -anything- by Shimano or SRAM is going to work well. Additional $$$ gives you some gains in durability (15k miles versus 10k, etc.) and a reduction in weight. There is also a slight performance gain with the better systems when it comes to shifting but it would only be a factor to elite racers. Note that durability requires you to take excellent care of the bike... you can burn through a chain in < 1k miles and then trash the cassette if you don't keep it clean.

I'm not sure where you're finding a $1k crank unless it has a power meter inside it. Cheap Shimano or SRAM is fine here and even some lower market brands.

For a -new- bike with bottom end Shimano or SRAM components you are typically looking at $500-$600 in a bike shop. Now you've already stated you're going to use clipless pedals, shoes, and get new tires (not sure why?). Figure another $150 or so for those items (new). If you don't own a patch kit, spare tube, pump, helmet, etc., etc. then plan on spending more money. This is why other posters aren't being overly helpful... you are asking for the impossible (great new sprint bike + clipless + new tires for $500).

Now, some of your links point to online stores. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you are a knowledgeable mechanic (i.e. can assemble or check the assembly) & you know what size bike you need. Note that sizing varies based on brand so you ideally need to try that model before buying.

Splice

derailleurs yes, fitting yes, tuning everything yes, truing wheels no. never really looked into what it takes or how but I like to be able to do things myself so eventually yes.

tagaproject6

Go to bikesdirect.
Pick a bike that is within your budget.
It will serve its purpose of getting you from point a to point b.
Banish the analytical retentiveness of why is product b better than product a. Studying data will reveal nothing to you.
Order bike.
Wait for bike.
Receive bike from delivery person.
Take bike out and assemble.
Attach all other accoutrements.
HTFU!
Ride!
Read my sig.

Drew Eckhardt 

Nope. Road cyclists generally like smaller jumps between consecutive cogs used at high speeds because staying in their preferred cadence range is more comfortable. Spinning faster for prolonged durations with a bigger cog at the same power output may not be possible, and turning the cranks slower with a smaller cog may produce unacceptable fatigue (I can ride threshold intervals on consecutive days without loosing power or feeling bad with a cadence over 90, but not much below. I never bothered to figure out exactly where the break point was, just did what works)

With an 11-25 you're getting 11,12,13,15,17,19,21,23,25.

Lots of cyclists complain about a missing 16 cog, many more would miss the 14, and I don't like cassettes that don't have one tooth jumps up to the 19.

OTOH,

52x13 is a 31 MPH cruising gear and 38+ MPH sprinting gear
50x13 is a 30 MPH cruising gear and 36+ MPH sprinting gear
52x12 is a 34 MPH cruising gear and 41+ MPH sprinting gear
50x12 is a 33 MPH cruising gear and 39+ MPH sprinting gear
52x11 is a 37 MPH cruising gear and 45+ MPH sprinting gear
50x11 is a 36 MPH cruising gear and 43+ MPH sprinting gear

so you don't need the 11 or 12 cog. On flat ground and moderate descents you don't have the power to use them. On steeper inclines just tuck.

With only 9 cogs in back I ride a 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23, with 50x34 producing low enough gearing for anything int the Rocky Mountains when I was in great shape and something like 50-39-28 ample for a big belly and one year with 4000 quality miles following four slacking years including a broken leg that I didn't walk on for months.

Apart from that a new HG50 cassette is just $20 if you're willing to wait for airmail from the UK.

Getting decent speed and endurance takes at least six hours a week or twenty-four hours a month. You need the bike to be comfortable enough to enjoy putting in the hours.

Of course what's comfortable for hours at a time and high intensities is different than what's comfortable for an untrained individual to toodle to the corner store.

A saddle without much padding to put pressure on your soft tissues is a lot nicer when you're riding for an hour or more at a time.

Some angle in your back is a lot more comfortable after time than sitting up, especially on uneven roads that would compress your spine if seated vertically.

snajper69

Cannondale Caad 10-5 is a solid bike (1.500.00), you can save more money bygoing with Caad 8-6 is around 1k and is a solid bike as well. I would still notget a bike without riding it, as the difference from one bike to another arehuge, and the fit for me is what makes or brakes the ride quality, comfort, andenjoyment. I would say once you cross the 1.5k you end up spending more but thedifference are not as substantial; you simply are paying more and fundingcompanies R&D. My bike was around 2k for me the 500 extra from Caad 10-5 toCaad10-3 was worth it. I and my friend agree going above 3k is insane, unlessyou are a racer (he is a pro mechanic with over 30 years experience in thefield). Unless you are racing or have money to burn spending 3k won’t make youbetter or faster rider, more riding time will give you better result. Hope thishelps.

Splice

Thank you Greg that helps. All upgrades or additional purcahses are outside of the amount listed, pedals/shoes/tires maybe a new BB. These things effect my speed greatly which is why I'm going to upgrade them.

I'm mainly looking for a bike to ride to 1 of the few main trails around here and back. So road riding, high speed paved trail riding and by sprinting i meant just casual sprints for as long as we can stand it with friends. Mostly long flat roads tiny hills if any.

joe_5700

I would much rather have a name brand bike with lower end components than a bikesdirect bike, but that is just my opinion. Most LBS offer free adjustments for at least a year and some offer lifetime. If something goes wrong with the bike, your LBS should handle it. If immediate service and resale isn't important to you, then go the bikesdirect route.

joe_5700

Splice, have you ever heard of the saying "ignorance is bliss"?

Splice

Thank you Drew and Snajper those both help me a lot.

Joe why would you want a brand name bike with low end components? higher resale value? I'm not really concerned too much with that, I can service the bike myself for the most part.

Splice

Yes I have and unfortunately the phrase "Curiosity killed the cat" applies more to a person like myself.

Greg_R

Skip the upgraded bottom bracket, that will do nothing for you.

People are recommending $650-$750 bikes because that's the entry point for most "quality" bike manufacturers. With these bikes you should be getting durable components & wheels and a dealer network to back you up if there are problems.

Option: If there is a Performance Bike nearby you should go visit them... some great options @ $550-$650 (Scattante R-330, Fuji Newest 3.0, etc.). You should be looking at "endurance", "rando", or "relaxed geometry" frames. They still look like a road bike but are much more comfortable for the type of riding you'll be doing. Perfect for longer rides yet still capable of "spirited" riding.

joe_5700

By buying the bike at a good LBS, they will fit you to a bike for a basic fit. How many size options did the Denali have?

joe_5700

What Greg said...

Splice

I think it had 3 options. No Performance Bike around me sadly, But I will look into those bikes and I have learned a good deal from this thread so far I may end up going to multiple LBS in search of the right deal.

One of them I know rents carbon fiber bikes out for $60 a day maybe I'll do that and take it on my next century I've already rode 2 centuries on my Denali.

Greg_R

This is your best bet (along with test rides). You can judge for yourself what the differences are...

coldehammer

To the OP, most of us are saying to get a very good used bike based on the return on investment. If you see yourself possibly falling in love with cycling and making it a routine activity, your upfront cost and satisfaction will be significantly greater in the long run. You would be able to use a good quality frame for a long time (possibly a lifetime) while upgrading components. A new bike is a lot like a new car, once you buy it it loses it value greatly if you plan on reselling it.

Otherwise, if it can possibly just be a phase, any of those bikes you mentioned on Bikes Direct will be fine, it's all based on what you want to pay for. Generally, the prices differ in the range of components. Lighter and stiffer frames are also a factor to consider. It is like anything, you get what you pay for.

To those who say, "I will just lose the 5lbs on me to save $1000, it's not the same". Imagine shopping for a baseball bat. If a bat is 10lbs versus a bat that is 7lbs, are you going to tell me you can lose three pounds to make up for the 10lb bat? No. It is a tool and piece of machinery that will react to how you use it based on it's own integrity as well.

joe_5700

Who knows maybe you will wind up thinking that the incremental difference for an entry level road bike is not worth it. I have ridden $4000 bikes before and was not blown away like I was with the difference between the $700 to $2000 bike. It becomes diminishing returns past ~$2000. Keep riding the heck out of the Denali and good luck with your search. Keep the Denali as your rain bike if you do decide to upgrade.

tagaproject6

Who rides bats?