Another LBS thread - I tried to support them today.
07-24-11 | 10:22 AM
#76
Speechless
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,842
Likes: 39
From: Central NY
Bikes: Felt Brougham, Lotus Prestige, Cinelli Xperience,
Absolutely. I went into my primary shop looking for a Chain Ring Bolt Wrench (the flat wrench that keeps the chain ring nut from spinning when removing chain rings). My regulars weren't there, so the kid I dealt with kept handing me a chain tool and telling me it is what I wanted. When I said no, I next was handed a chain whip. I found it on Amazon for $5.97
07-24-11 | 10:50 AM
#77
Senior Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Likes: 1
Bikes: 2013 orca
Here is an interesting monologue, with several buried hints at what we are observing to be wrong with the LBS.
First is the suggestion that the average person cannot know anything about bikes, and only the guys in the shop can save him from himself:
"My questions here are the same dumb questions I ask them each time I go in."
These chaps hold cycling's Golden Egg in their fingers. One must wait his turn to speak to them, even though they see Mr. Fred as one of them.
They may beat their wives, be Republicans or be as dumb as stones about anything else, but they enjoy Olympian status because they have chain lube under their fingernails.
Then there is this, when talking about a shop across town:
I just don't know the people as well and I don't ride with their groups. It sounds snobbish but it's like a clique and you stick to your own.
Here, Mr. Fred admits to not riding with *their groups*. In fact, one can surmise from his comments that, as cyclists, you are expected to *stick to your own.* Don't show up uninvited, dude.
By comparison, *his* store is a place of comfort and familiarity.
Without realizing it, DropDeadFred is bolstering the exclusive snobbery one finds in LBS's all over. These things come from Fred himself, too. He accepts them as normal.
Certainly, not every LBS has this fault. But curiously, it may pervade any of them and we think that is acceptable.
If you got that same attitude from Best Buys, for example, you'd tell them to kiss your @ss and hit the internet in a minute. But, if you get it from the folks in the bike shop, well... that's okay. You should still give them your money.
In fairness, Mr. Fred is eclectic. He knows that others should be allowed to form their own opinions. In the end, though, I imagine it is expected they will form similar opinions about *their* chosen shop.
This is not meant to degrade anyone, least of all you, DDF. I give you thumbs up for the entirety of your comments. They are enlightening. You sound like a great fellow.
First is the suggestion that the average person cannot know anything about bikes, and only the guys in the shop can save him from himself:
"My questions here are the same dumb questions I ask them each time I go in."
These chaps hold cycling's Golden Egg in their fingers. One must wait his turn to speak to them, even though they see Mr. Fred as one of them.
They may beat their wives, be Republicans or be as dumb as stones about anything else, but they enjoy Olympian status because they have chain lube under their fingernails.
Then there is this, when talking about a shop across town:
I just don't know the people as well and I don't ride with their groups. It sounds snobbish but it's like a clique and you stick to your own.
Here, Mr. Fred admits to not riding with *their groups*. In fact, one can surmise from his comments that, as cyclists, you are expected to *stick to your own.* Don't show up uninvited, dude.
By comparison, *his* store is a place of comfort and familiarity.
Without realizing it, DropDeadFred is bolstering the exclusive snobbery one finds in LBS's all over. These things come from Fred himself, too. He accepts them as normal.
Certainly, not every LBS has this fault. But curiously, it may pervade any of them and we think that is acceptable.
If you got that same attitude from Best Buys, for example, you'd tell them to kiss your @ss and hit the internet in a minute. But, if you get it from the folks in the bike shop, well... that's okay. You should still give them your money.
In fairness, Mr. Fred is eclectic. He knows that others should be allowed to form their own opinions. In the end, though, I imagine it is expected they will form similar opinions about *their* chosen shop.
This is not meant to degrade anyone, least of all you, DDF. I give you thumbs up for the entirety of your comments. They are enlightening. You sound like a great fellow.
From what the majority of people are saying is that they are more educated than the people on staff at the shops. That's offensive...as a former auto mechanic, I used to hate when a customer TOLD me what was wrong with their car...or how to fix it. 98% of the time, they are wrong. If you go into a shop full of interweb knowledge and know the answers and feel you need to quiz the employees, then you don't belong there...you can buy online, where you got your education. If you want to support your LBS and know what you want...go in...with a sheet of paper with your bike and specs and price range...let them go from there....close the transaction....make sure you get a free shirt.
Rudeness is a different subject. Theres a difference between being rude and being short with somebody who walks in with a sense of self entitlement.
07-24-11 | 01:48 PM
#78
Ridin' South Cackalacky
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 2
before I got into the sport I was fully explained to the severity of eliteness that surrounds it. I don't expect anybody to give me a wave when I pass, I don't expect employees at a shop to give me the attention I feel I deserve. In a world of browsers how often do the people who know about bikes really really need the people in the shop to do anything other than pull the bike off the rack and let them test it out.
From what the majority of people are saying is that they are more educated than the people on staff at the shops. That's offensive...as a former auto mechanic, I used to hate when a customer TOLD me what was wrong with their car...or how to fix it. 98% of the time, they are wrong. If you go into a shop full of interweb knowledge and know the answers and feel you need to quiz the employees, then you don't belong there...you can buy online, where you got your education. If you want to support your LBS and know what you want...go in...with a sheet of paper with your bike and specs and price range...let them go from there....close the transaction....make sure you get a free shirt.
Rudeness is a different subject. Theres a difference between being rude and being short with somebody who walks in with a sense of self entitlement.
From what the majority of people are saying is that they are more educated than the people on staff at the shops. That's offensive...as a former auto mechanic, I used to hate when a customer TOLD me what was wrong with their car...or how to fix it. 98% of the time, they are wrong. If you go into a shop full of interweb knowledge and know the answers and feel you need to quiz the employees, then you don't belong there...you can buy online, where you got your education. If you want to support your LBS and know what you want...go in...with a sheet of paper with your bike and specs and price range...let them go from there....close the transaction....make sure you get a free shirt.
Rudeness is a different subject. Theres a difference between being rude and being short with somebody who walks in with a sense of self entitlement.
I recently pulled and repaired the transmission in my truck. No great feat, really; a pretty basic job. But the guy at the dealership who sold me the parts didn't assume I was constipated with self-entitlement. Instead, he explained why it broke and what the ROOT CAUSE of the failure is. He told me where to look, how to test it, and how to make it right.
He was the only place to get the part, and he didn't know me from Adam. However, he didn't test me to see if I was worthy. Nor did he assume I was one of the elite who understood the "secrets" - he just told me, without fanfare. He explained it clearly and asked me for my understanding. He educated me.
Being the sole source of what I needed, why did he bother? Because he knows service means commitment to the customer... every customer.
Unlike the LBS, his business does not rely on a select, captive clientele who "gets it."
His business does not rely on customers who must first measure up to some standard which only he knows.
His business, in fact, very likely relies on every guy who walks in the door.
You are right about rudeness. When the folks at the LBS assume the people who come in are dolts, browsing rubberneckers, or not "real" cyclists, then they have committed an affront of rudeness. That we allow ourselves to be schooled in the normalcy of this and may actually pay them to let us into the clique, well... that is our fault, isn't it?
Last edited by dahut; 07-24-11 at 01:54 PM.
07-24-11 | 01:52 PM
#79
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
You, kind sir, are also correct.
My public apology for my earlier responses and not quite so polite manner in which I posted them.
In fact, I went back to the LBS, and had them use their "body scanning" unit to fit me to a road bike. Operator said I was between a 54 and 56 cm, closer to a 56. Stood over a 56 - lo and behold, not quite so bad - but still an issue with the "boys" and the bar. Presumably, compression shorts would help that somewhat.
I do have a somewhat longer trunk compared to my leg length, so I guess they are going for top tube length here also.
I will note that the operator interpreted the results of the measurements, as near as I can tell there is nothing on the printout to indicate the computer generated the result. Interestingly, the guy who fit me to the hybrid, when I asked him what road bike size - said, between 54 and 56, and said which guy to get to operate machine.
Regards
I would send abstractform20 a PM to be sure he got my apology, but I do not have enough posts for PM to be enabled,
My public apology for my earlier responses and not quite so polite manner in which I posted them.
In fact, I went back to the LBS, and had them use their "body scanning" unit to fit me to a road bike. Operator said I was between a 54 and 56 cm, closer to a 56. Stood over a 56 - lo and behold, not quite so bad - but still an issue with the "boys" and the bar. Presumably, compression shorts would help that somewhat.
I do have a somewhat longer trunk compared to my leg length, so I guess they are going for top tube length here also.
I will note that the operator interpreted the results of the measurements, as near as I can tell there is nothing on the printout to indicate the computer generated the result. Interestingly, the guy who fit me to the hybrid, when I asked him what road bike size - said, between 54 and 56, and said which guy to get to operate machine.
Regards
I would send abstractform20 a PM to be sure he got my apology, but I do not have enough posts for PM to be enabled,
Last edited by Triode; 07-24-11 at 01:57 PM.
07-24-11 | 03:10 PM
#80
Senior Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,429
Likes: 1
Bikes: 2013 orca
07-24-11 | 07:50 PM
#81
John Wayne Toilet Paper
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 0
From: Roanoke
Bikes: BH carbon, Ritchey steel, Kona aluminum
My LBS ALWAYS treats me with respect, whether it's the college age kid with large-gauge rings in his ears, the crusty looking old guy, or the hotshot guy my age that rides and races. There is NEVER an excuse for insulting a customer.
07-24-11 | 07:59 PM
#82
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 5
Seriously, though. LBS employees are just kind of weird, slightly offensive people. I wish I knew why; maybe it's part of their job description.
I had a mechanic that made funny comments about my legs at my old LBS. There's weird legends about the crabby guy that owns the place on the edge of the city. My current mechanic asks me when I'm getting married every time I come in.
As much as I hate to say it, if you want pleasantries and politeness you're probably going to have to shop at Performance. It seems like everyone has something to say about the attitudes at their LBS.
I had a mechanic that made funny comments about my legs at my old LBS. There's weird legends about the crabby guy that owns the place on the edge of the city. My current mechanic asks me when I'm getting married every time I come in.
As much as I hate to say it, if you want pleasantries and politeness you're probably going to have to shop at Performance. It seems like everyone has something to say about the attitudes at their LBS.
not to sound condescending, but if bike shop workers were high brow, they probably would be doing something else. most of them tend to be rough around the edges
the guy probably didn't mean to attack you, he probably was just blunt and had no little voice in his head telling him to filter what he should say
that said, id buy somewhere else too
07-24-11 | 08:14 PM
#84
Ridin' South Cackalacky
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 2
You are telling us there is an LBS somewhere staffed with low-brow characters, kooks and curmudgeons that we don't have to make apologies for. One that STILL understands service?
07-24-11 | 08:31 PM
#85
John Wayne Toilet Paper
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 0
From: Roanoke
Bikes: BH carbon, Ritchey steel, Kona aluminum
Not trying to schill so I won't say the name but they are in Kenmore, WA, just north of Seattle.
07-24-11 | 09:28 PM
#86
Speechless
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 8,842
Likes: 39
From: Central NY
Bikes: Felt Brougham, Lotus Prestige, Cinelli Xperience,
Maybe I have totally missed the boat, but I think we are all saying the same thing. We have had some really good bike shop experiences and some bad ones. The OP started this with a bad one, and I don't think anyone says otherwise.
For my part, I defend the underdog, so when people start railing on ALL BIKE SHOPS, it seems as ignorant as the "people your age like this bike" comment that started the thread. I read the comments, I think of the positive experiences, and feel they should be defended.
And as to the whole "clique" thing with certain shops, we human animals are social creatures with a desire to group and fit in. This isn't a bike shop thing. All the employees at the diner I frequent (Julie's in North Syracuse, NY.. everyone go there now) know my name, they know I eat 3 eggs over easy, sourdough toast, and homefries with onions. I know that they receive $4.04 for this. Does this make me a diner snob because I have a social relationship in a mercantile exchange? PSSAHH.
I have never had a positive new car buying experience. Can we move this to FOO and then start bashing them in earnest?
For my part, I defend the underdog, so when people start railing on ALL BIKE SHOPS, it seems as ignorant as the "people your age like this bike" comment that started the thread. I read the comments, I think of the positive experiences, and feel they should be defended.
And as to the whole "clique" thing with certain shops, we human animals are social creatures with a desire to group and fit in. This isn't a bike shop thing. All the employees at the diner I frequent (Julie's in North Syracuse, NY.. everyone go there now) know my name, they know I eat 3 eggs over easy, sourdough toast, and homefries with onions. I know that they receive $4.04 for this. Does this make me a diner snob because I have a social relationship in a mercantile exchange? PSSAHH.
I have never had a positive new car buying experience. Can we move this to FOO and then start bashing them in earnest?
Last edited by RollCNY; 07-24-11 at 09:31 PM.
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