So I find out yesterday that Garmin units calculate speed via GPS (no wheel sensors needed). Didn't know that before, that's logical.

I was hoping the Fred Brain Trust here could answer a few questions about Garmin units:

• Will they recognize my Cycleops HR strap?

• I presume they will recognize the Ant+ Powertap hub: will that include the cadence and speed calculations? Does the Garmin speed calculation over-ride the Ptap hub speed data?

• Will the Saris Power Agent software on the Mac recognize the Edge units and download similar data?

• If Garmin units calculate speed via GPS, then why do they sell a separate cadence/speed sensor? Is that just for speed?

If I get a Garmin it would probably be the cheaper 500, I could give a fark about GPS maps. Pcad knows where the eff he's going when he's on a friggin bicycle for crissake.

Besides measuring cadence, the sensor kicks in when the unit can't receive a GPS signal, ie roads with heavy tree cover, or in the basement when using a trainer or rollers.

They'll recognize a coded 2.4 GHz strap. They will not recognize the older non-coded strap.

Yes.

It prefers the ANT+ speed/cadence sensor, then looks at Powertap numbers, and finally relies on GPS speed.

Cadence, works on a trainer (but is pretty irrelevant with power), works with a bad GPS signal, does not have GPS error.

according to Garmin, if the GSC-10 is present, it takes priority for reading speed over the GPS

Yes. I use a Cycleops ANT+ HR strap with mine all the time.

Yes, without the GSC-10 the Garmin will take power, speed, and cadence off of the PowerTap. If you have a GSC-10, it will take power and speed off of the PowerTap, and cadence off of the GSC-10.

Cadence and accuracy. As I understand the precedence it's PowerTap>GSC-10>GPS for speed, and GSC-10>PowerTap for cadence.

I agree. The 800 is overkill for the vast majority. I only use my 500 for data collection -- I don't touch the course features or the imaginary opponent features. One thing I wish it had is an interval timer so I could get audible interval start/stop indications.

Didn't you just buy a Joule?

Yeah, I just got it two years ago.

Try to pay attention Fredly.

What about the Power Agent software question? Any Fredly Input on that issue?

I bought a Garmin 800 this spring as I needed to replace my 4-5 year old wired Powertap and decided to use the Garmin as my head unit.. I have used the 800 with the cadence sensor on the same bike as the wired Powertap and they correlate very closely in terms of distance, speed, etc. with the Powertap head. There is very little discrepancy. The only software I use is Cycling Peaks.

I didn't expect to use the maps much but I am finding myself using them more and more. New routes are easy to load onto the 800 (with bike route toaster) and it is kind of fun to plan new and different routes and then following them on the screen. I also have been more inclined to just ride on unplanned and spontaneous routes and then let the Garmin lead me home.

Cycling Peaks is Windows only. The Utter Fail of that fact is hard to overstate.

There you go...leveraging all the map features really unlocks some fun and advantage on the bike. Once you "get it" there are a number of benefits with mapping.

Also, the screen size of the 800 is outstanding for clear display. You can keep the
three page displays simple or cram more stuff onto each page than what is displayed
for a fighter pilot. I actually use the night backlight feature with full brightness for my personal preference during bright days.

I also would like a "interval timer" but have adapted using the time & distance alerts in combination.

Sum...I find the gamie 8 very useful as my wife swears by her 5's data views and usefulness albeit less map and screen size.

pcad,

PowerAgent on the Mac doesn't deal with the Garmin 500, at least (I'm going to assume the 800 is the same way, since it's new and Garmin's choice these days is the .fit file format rather than the previous .tcx file format).

The version of PowerAgent I have, 7, doesn't import .fit files directly. If you convert the .fit files to .tcx files, either with Garmin Training Center or downloading from Garmin Connect then you can import fine into PowerAgent. I just did that with today's ride and it shows up right in PowerAgent, including the correct power data, etc.

PowerAgent is a pretty crappy piece of software, though. There are better choices out there.

On the speed/cadence sensor issue - I know, at least on my ForeRunner 310XT, that GPS speed would be quite inaccurate on any hill climb, because the unit was only calculating speed based on horizontal movement, which of course was less the more you were climbing. There's a good chance the 500 does a better job than that, and certainly after the fact it can, but traditionally that's one reason you want that sensor.

Or if you bike where there are a lot of trees.

Not if you have to use Windows. Eff that. Pass. I'll stick with the Joule. PowerAgent software is fine.

Frankly it's a matter of time before some of these stupid companies start to get picture - they're really walking away from increasing market share by ignoring the Mac.

I'm open to any suggestions for Mac based software that can import this data of course.

I installed Windows 7 on one of our office Macs to access the occasional 3D file that can't make it over to the Mac side. But Windows sucks so hard it's difficult to overstate. Better than it used to be, but that's not saying much.

Golden Cheetah is free, open source, and can import directly from the .fit files. It's a lot like WKO+ but not as polished in the UI, but you get most of the features - more than PowerAgent.

Ascent is supposed to be good, but I haven't tried it.

Honestly I just wind up using the TrainingPeaks website especially now that they have a Mac-based Device Agent uploader.

You can upload your Garmin or Powertap files to the Training Peaks website and use the TP software via the web? What do they charge for that?

A handy list of all Ant+ devices includes Garmin 500, etc. and their compatibility can be found here: https://www.thisisant.com/modules/mod...-directory.php

It lists 71 different heart rate straps, power meters, etc. that work with the Garmin 500.

This crap is too complicated.

They have free accounts that you can try out and you get a lot of the data and basic data management with that.

You need a premium account to get all the WKO+ style power features, performance management charts, etc. It's a bit expensive per year if you aren't using it with a coach, IMO. One cool thing about that, though - they have the whole workflow for user -> TrainingPeaks -> WKO+ -> coach worked out, so either the user, or the coach, or both can use either training peaks.com or WKO+ to manage their data/athletes.

I tried to upload my Powertap files and it came back with some error message.

My interest in fathoming this crap is zero point zero zero.

All will be revealed to you in time my son....Just buy the Effn thing!!

What a sample trainingpeaks dashboard looks like with a season's power data (i.e. pretty much just like what you'd get in WKO+):


trainingpeaks.com dashboard

Not a chance.

Don't give me more motivation to drop you on the next climb. By the way, your wife is correct, you are too friggin skinny.

pcad - grab the Mac Device Agent from https://support.trainingpeaks.com/device-agent.aspx instead of trying to upload via their web UI. It works better.

This thread is only getting me aggravated, which is what technology tends to do to older crankyass cyclists.

My legs are friggin sore from chasing G. Gekko around for 140 miles this weekend.

At least I got to ride my complete stable of road bikes this weekend.

S2, R2, P3, Ibis. So many bikes. So little time.