The part I don't get is that the fork angle will have something to do with where the handlebar/front axle alignment lands. That is somewhat if not completely independent of the top tube length. If the forks are very straight, or have some curve will also factor in, won't it?

I'm working through fitting up my new bike (just got it this week) so I can ride a while before a pro fitting (if I can't manage to tweak it in myself). The fork geometry seems to have pulled my axle back, visually. I am comfortable as far as my back and arms on the bike - the saddle certainly doesn't work for me - and I wouldn't want the next size smaller frame, because the frame allows me to stretch out that little bit I don't get on my other bike (a CX bike).

There is no objective way for any of us here to give you advice without watching you ride. If you could provide video of you riding on rollers or a trainer we could give it a shot, but without visuals, pretty much anything recommended here is crap.

Fitting, done right, by professionals schooled in exercise physiology, is a science. It's worth every penny to me. Done by bike shop employees, maybe not.

timing convergence of seemingly random events is an everyday occurrence on my rides. don;t think I'm the only one that experiences this...
above is an example, thankfully the only time I've been bomb'd, yet, I was on my moto and the helmutt took the brunt of the straif. Was a messy cleanup though...
co-ink-Qee-Dink seems almost nonstop depending on where in the system one happens to be...
random soup of bikepaths, UCSB students and late afternoon seems to be the high entropy state of such a system - hence almost guaranteed multiple convergences.
all without meaning - frogger...

this.
/end thread.

Agreed, for the most part... however, there are so many "professionals" trying to use you as a guinea pig for their fitting program you might end up in the wrong hands with a severely lighter wallet.

That's why you need to find a good one the right way, by asking people. I know, it's a lost skill these days. You know, talking.

sorry, my words stand.

I have read a lot about bike fitting and I still don't have a clue about how to fit a bike to a rider. Are there any threads on here where a short video of a rider is posted and then analyzed by qualified fitters. This would be helpful and maybe then I could at least have a few clues about what to look for in a fitting.

I know that the fitness of the rider has a lot to do with how any bike fit will work for the rider so maybe several videos of various riders would be helpful.

My bike fit probably needs to be tweaked and I would like to know what to expect if I raise the saddle too high or if I have it too low. All I can do at this point is to make a small change and ride for a while to see if I like the change. It just appears to me that this bike fitting is an art and not a science and trial and error is the only way to make any progress.

Type in "proper bike fit" in the search of your favorite "Tube" site and there are plenty of vids on this to get you started..You should be able to tell the ones that are reputable and the ones that are lame...

thanks

probably still a little better than asking most of the "experts" here...just sayin'. And with even reasonable intelligence it shouldnt be difficult to research a reliable fitter.

Agreed.

However, standing words is not what the OP or others of us are after. We'd like to understand. Your statements are at best a waste of bandwidth for the information contained in them.

Someone on here once argues blind to me that if i wasnt using a 110mm (middle of the range) length stem then my bike didnt fit me properly. Utter BS! there are a lot of these rules of thumb around and they are fine so long as you realise thats what they are. Not hard fast rules. Dont be surprised if none of them work and dont pay a fitter to get his laser out and set you to them to the mm. What feels right, is right. And what feels right will change with time.

i cannot lose if i dont play the hopelessly specific game!