Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Feeling fast vs going fast

Search
Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Feeling fast vs going fast

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11-09-11 | 12:50 PM
  #1  
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 7
From: Northern VA

Bikes: Moots Vamoots, Colnago C60, Santa Cruz Stigmata CC, and too many other bikes I don't ride

Feeling fast vs going fast

All my bikes have somewhat similar geometry and components, but different frame material. I definitely feel fastest on the full carbon, and followed by the steel bike, and feel the slowest on the titanium one. I did a few experiments and the actual speed difference for the same ride under similar conditions turned out to be very small (<0.2 mph).

So what exactly makes you feel fast? Is it the difference in the flex of the frame?
dalava is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 12:53 PM
  #2  
tanguy frame's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
Likes: 1
From: Portland, OR metro area
it's all in your head.
tanguy frame is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 12:56 PM
  #3  
banerjek's Avatar
Portland Fred
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,553
Likes: 54

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Originally Posted by dalava
So what exactly makes you feel fast? Is it the difference in the flex of the frame?
Get close to the ground. On a trike, you feel like you're moving fast even when you're slow.
banerjek is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 01:00 PM
  #4  
noisebeam's Avatar
Arizona Dessert
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,029
Likes: 2,170
From: AZ

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Originally Posted by tanguy frame
it's all in your head.
Generally I feel faster if there is less effort at the same speed. So riding at 25mph with a tailwind feels fast, but a full on effort to achieve 25mph into headwind feels slower.
noisebeam is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 01:02 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
From: New England

Bikes: 2010 Jamis Xenith Comp

Originally Posted by dalava
So what exactly makes you feel fast? Is it the difference in the flex of the frame?
maybe. if the carbon is stiffer, it probably accelerates faster, and that might be noticeable...but it won't change your avg speed much over the course of the ride.

i haven't ridden Ti (or a nice steel road bike for that matter), but i would guess road feel also has something to do with it. don't steel and Ti have a softer ride than carbon? that might make them feel a little less quick and snappy...don't really know, just speculating.
climber7 is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 01:06 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 11
From: Netherlands

Bikes: BMC

Wheelsets might be the culprit here.

Other than that i think it's also a function of cadance. If i'm doing a hard effort at high cadances i feel a lot faster than trying to mash a low gear despite equal speeds.
gerundium is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 01:18 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Sounds like a variation of placebo effect.
Right Said Fred is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 01:23 PM
  #8  
noisebeam's Avatar
Arizona Dessert
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,029
Likes: 2,170
From: AZ

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Originally Posted by dalava
actual speed difference for the same ride under similar conditions turned out to be very small (<0.2 mph).
Unless you went out of your way to check and adjust them, I'd be very surprised if you cycle computers are calibrated within 1% of each other.
noisebeam is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 02:08 PM
  #9  
stonefree's Avatar
Icantre Member
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
From: the Bayou City perpetually under construction

Bikes: 2001 DBR Axis TT, 1998 Trek 5500 OCLV, 1993 Trek 1100, 1971 Raleigh Grand Prix, 1972 Gitane Attic Beater

Yeh right, lighter bikes aren't faster, sure...yup. Sounds like a job for mythbusters.
stonefree is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 02:11 PM
  #10  
urbanknight's Avatar
Over the hill
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 24,618
Likes: 1,378
From: Los Angeles, CA

Bikes: Pinarello Nytro, Momentum Transend

I have only ever experienced the former of the two, so I have no opinion.
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
urbanknight is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 02:42 PM
  #11  
mmmdonuts's Avatar
Gluteus Enormus
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,245
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC

Bikes: Yes

Is the CF bike red? The color makes a difference and red is fastest.
mmmdonuts is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 02:58 PM
  #12  
hairnet's Avatar
Fresh Garbage
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,190
Likes: 30
From: Los Angeles

Bikes: N+1

Originally Posted by climber7
i would guess road feel also has something to do with it
This

I feel must faster on my Al road bike than on my steel ones but really I'm not. I just feel everything on the road with the Al bike and for some reason that translates to speed.
hairnet is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 03:05 PM
  #13  
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 7
From: Northern VA

Bikes: Moots Vamoots, Colnago C60, Santa Cruz Stigmata CC, and too many other bikes I don't ride

Originally Posted by noisebeam
Unless you went out of your way to check and adjust them, I'd be very surprised if you cycle computers are calibrated within 1% of each other.
I used the same computer.
dalava is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 03:06 PM
  #14  
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 7
From: Northern VA

Bikes: Moots Vamoots, Colnago C60, Santa Cruz Stigmata CC, and too many other bikes I don't ride

The carbon is red, the steel is blue, and the ti is brushed.
dalava is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 03:08 PM
  #15  
noisebeam's Avatar
Arizona Dessert
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,029
Likes: 2,170
From: AZ

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Originally Posted by dalava
I used the same computer.
GPS? I wonder what the repeatability is for the same route.
noisebeam is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 03:24 PM
  #16  
urbanknight's Avatar
Over the hill
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 24,618
Likes: 1,378
From: Los Angeles, CA

Bikes: Pinarello Nytro, Momentum Transend

Originally Posted by dalava
I used the same computer.
There could be a variance in tire diameter. The only way to accurately compare is with elapsed time on the exact same route, with no red lights or other variable stops.
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
urbanknight is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 03:34 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,841
Likes: 2,859
Originally Posted by urbanknight
There could be a variance in tire diameter. The only way to accurately compare is with elapsed time on the exact same route, with no red lights or other variable stops.
What if he compares on a century? How do you time that? I'm just saying.
seypat is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 03:39 PM
  #18  
mmmdonuts's Avatar
Gluteus Enormus
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,245
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC

Bikes: Yes

Originally Posted by dalava
The carbon is red, the steel is blue, and the ti is brushed.
There it is. You have the answer.
mmmdonuts is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 03:41 PM
  #19  
noisebeam's Avatar
Arizona Dessert
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,029
Likes: 2,170
From: AZ

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Originally Posted by urbanknight
There could be a variance in tire diameter. The only way to accurately compare is with elapsed time on the exact same route, with no red lights or other variable stops.
Right. Every brand and even different models within a brand can be different enough to cause over a 1% change. A 10psi pressure delta on measured wheel can cause a 0.5% speed reading difference. Even front/rear tire weight distribution will change readings unless adjusted for.
noisebeam is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 04:10 PM
  #20  
Dudelsack's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,647
Likes: 97
From: South Hutchinson Island

Bikes: Lectric Xpedition.

Perhaps a Terrell rotation comes into play here.
Dudelsack is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 04:16 PM
  #21  
tanguy frame's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
Likes: 1
From: Portland, OR metro area
I just came back from a slow ride. It felt slow ant it took a long time. Bike was steel. Blue.
tanguy frame is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 04:28 PM
  #22  
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 7
From: Northern VA

Bikes: Moots Vamoots, Colnago C60, Santa Cruz Stigmata CC, and too many other bikes I don't ride

Originally Posted by tanguy frame
I just came back from a slow ride. It felt slow ant it took a long time. Bike was steel. Blue.
dalava is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 04:31 PM
  #23  
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 7
From: Northern VA

Bikes: Moots Vamoots, Colnago C60, Santa Cruz Stigmata CC, and too many other bikes I don't ride

I know a lot of variants affect the "real" speed, but whatever the difference may be, it pales in comparison to how fast/slow you "feel" on different bikes. I am just not sure what's the biggest contributor to this "feel". I can rationalize the carbon stiffness but it can't be just that making it "feels" so much faster that the steel/ti.
dalava is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 04:56 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 11
From: Netherlands

Bikes: BMC

Originally Posted by noisebeam
Right. Every brand and even different models within a brand can be different enough to cause over a 1% change. A 10psi pressure delta on measured wheel can cause a 0.5% speed reading difference. Even front/rear tire weight distribution will change readings unless adjusted for.
maybe you need to take into account the coriolis effect as well.
gerundium is offline  
Reply
Old 11-09-11 | 04:59 PM
  #25  
mmmdonuts's Avatar
Gluteus Enormus
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,245
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC

Bikes: Yes

You associate certain feedback with speed and CF is giving you more of that feedback. That's pretty much all there is to it. If you can use the same wheelset on all three you can eliminate that variable.
mmmdonuts is offline  
Reply


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.