embankmentlb

Campy releases the new electronic shifting groups. It looks nice & has multiple shifting.
They may have actually bested Shimano with this one. I can't wait for a head to head review.

thirdgenbird

In comparison to DA di2 record eps is:
Same price
Lighter
1 more cog
Longer battery life
Claimed more water resistant (if it manners)
Same wire routing as di2
Better looking
Better lever feedback than di2
Same ergos as cable group (you can have a cheaper second bike w/ same form and function)
Same auto trimming
Multiple shifts

Wheel support for racing seems to be the only slight downside.

alpha_bravo

Electric and Italian just doesn't seem to go together for me...

I'm very curious as to why in a business sense Campagnolo went the electric shifting route. They already have a niche market and very loyal customer base. Even with the added feature of multiple shifts and 11 speeds (if that's a feature) I just don't see these groups selling. SRAM has an entire ad campaign now decrying electronic shifting. I'm surprised Campagnolo didn't jump on that wagon. Perhaps they've already invested too much R&D and felt they had to bring the product to light? The romantic in me wants to believe that they honestly see a practical advantage to electronic shifting and felt it would benefit the rider in the end. But I don't trust ANY company to think that altruistically...

One more question for anyone who may know, will Campagnolo's electric cable routing be compatible with Di2 frames?

thirdgenbird

campagnolo has been working on electronic shifting off and on since the 8spd era and in 2005 their prototype group saw the professional circuit. i think they actually see an advantage.


all the reports i have read say that the wire routing (but not the wires) is compatible with existing di2 frames. looking at the erlier prototypes it apppears they modified the routing with this in mind.

lazerzxr

I see no reason for multiple shifts, DA Di2 can flick thrugh the entire cassette efforlessly and quicker than multiple cable shifts. I like having single shift Di2

thirdgenbird

interestingly enough operators of campagnolo eps can opt to ignore the multi shift feature and shift one gear at a time just like di2...

i would also be very skeptical that di2 can dump cogs faster than super record, record, or chorus.

wkg

One of the coolest things about Di2 is the modifications/hacks people have done to it, i.e. putting it on a mountain bike, or reprogramming it to do sequential shifting that requires only one shifter, or taking the brain apart so as to fully integrate it inside the frame. My guess is all this will be impossible with Campy given that they've bragged about how they fully sealed the electronic unit. I'm sure even if you could manage to get that open they safeguarded all the firmware.

lazerzxr

https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...upset-12-45511

"Lever throws are very short but significantly longer than Di2"

"There's a bit of a lag while holding down the button before the 'brain' realizes you're asking for multiple gear changes, and while you can move across the entire cluster in just a second-and-a-half according to Campagnolo (and roughly verified by us during our test ride), that's still distinctly slower than what we can do with the company's mechanical drivetrains"

"More worrisome was the handful of times we felt the rear upshift button click but got no gear change in return."

I'll stick with Di2. IMO it is flawless

rat fink

Ooh, this one is easy... When I try the new Campagnolo product, if I like it more, I might eventually get it. If I don't find it appreciably better, then I still want to get Di2. One thing that has continued to keep Campag products off my bikes, is the stupid proprietary freehub design. Shimano/Sram wheelsets are just so much more readily available, and I like having options.

thirdgenbird

i agree that nearly all of the benifits of campagnolo are minor but to continue the conversation:

-i dont care about 11spd shimano untill it is official
-i want lever feedback because the fingers on my right hand do not operate properly and i can not reliably operate di2
-i want lever feedback when my hands are freezing cold and/or in full finger gloves


personally i dont care about the "di2 is hackable" argument. out of the box eps does exactly what i would want. it replicates their current systems. i dont think i am alone when i feel like i should get features like multiple shifts without having to rely on a 3rd party hack. di2 on a mountain bike? sure it is really cool but the market just isnt there, especially for campagnolo. untill this changes hackability is one of the most negotiable arguments in favor of di2

thirdgenbird

it is slower than campagnolos mechanical systems but it is still probably on par with di2. campagnolo ultrashift can dump a cassette very quickly.

in the article they also admit that no one else experienced the shifting issue. i wouldnt put much weight in it at this point. movistar seemed happy.

lazerzxr

Having ridden Di2 and countless mechanical groups for 1000s of miles I can garantee that (with me at the helm al least) Di2 will rattle off a cassette quicker than any mechanical group. All the time is made up with lack of lever movement.

lazerzxr

I also dont think eps looks that good. The battery is huge and the mechs look like a bunch of parts stuck together unfinished. each part of Di2 looks like a well finished unit

thirdgenbird

are you sure? one of my record10 equipped bikes will shift all 10 cogs with one sweep of the lever. i also believe Cavendish complained about the lack of feedback and slow shifting on di2.

i dont disagree that you personally may shift faster with di2 than you on a cable group but you experience seems to buck the trend

i cant find speed comments but there is this from bikeradar:

mutantdunk

Ohhhh these will sell well. I'd get one tomorrow if I had the money. Sounds like they really nailed it.

This from a Shimano, SRAM cabled guy.

DRietz

Have you seen Ultegra Di2?

Since you just said Di2, I figured you meant both subsets. Ultegra Di2 is ugly as hell. Campagnolo is a functional piece of art.

People who don't like Campy EPS don't need to. Campy doesn't care about you - when Shimano posted $2billion in revenue last year, and Campy only $150million, Mr. Campagnolo wasn't put off at all. They have a market and that's who they're selling to.

And seriously, modifications to EPS? Like what? Would you really put it on a mountain bike? Have you, WKG, ever actually modified Di2? Because it's easy as hell and all you need is a soldering gun, and based on the fact that Campy uses identical wiring, it seems like it'd be just as easy. You don't have to alter Di2 firmware in order to put it on a mountain bike, so you could theoretically do the same with EPS.

Bob Dopolina 

You're confusing feedback with throw.

Throw is the distance the lever travels to actuate a shift.

Feedback is the tactile feel of the shifting process.

When Campagnolo was reducing the feedback of their 10spd stuff, many pros said they wanted more. The reasoning was that once they were really spent or really red-lined, they wanted shifting to be very distinct to reduce to chance of shifting error when dumping their cassette. To address this Campagnolo introduced the RED version of their Record 10spd and made it available to pro riders.

When they introduced 11spd it had a much softer feel and there were complaints from all types of riders. Again, Campagnolo addressed this by increasing the feedback in the levers.

It would only make sense to do it again with electronic as opposed to introducing 2 new groups and then having to modify it as they've already had to do with the last two versions of their new groups.

IMHO, I agree with them. I want to feel the shift in the lever. I like the clear, distinct click for each gear. It doesn't matter so much when you have to click one gear at a time but if I am dumping my cassette I want to know I dumped 5 and not 6.

This does not apply to those groups where you have to go clickety, clickety, clickety, clickety, clickety, click to dump 6 cogs...

Jed19

Italians don't do electronics well (reliability is always sketchy).

FIAT anyone?

Homebrew01

Yes, nicely explained.
I have the "light" feedback Centaur 09 on one bike and it sucks because you can't tell how many shifts you made at once.
I have "regular" feedback shifters on my other bikes.

embankmentlb

Thats the problem with Campy, It's a crap shoot, some of it is good & some of it is bad.

patentcad

But it's Italian. Italian electronics. The very phrase is ominous.

patentcad

To be fair, they also make Ferraris.

patentcad

You had a perfectly good BF Flame War ignited, and then you pour water on it with this modifier. WTF?

patentcad

It's complicated.

triumph.1

...........but remember it's probably going to be sourced to an Asian country like most things.............