word.

A talented designer and good frame maker could make a good frame out of a bunch of different things, including bamboo. But, titanium has the best qualities of steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber, and no real weaknesses when used correctly.

As soon as Ti bikes get to my price range (ain't gonna happen) I am going to buy one.

someday when I'm a millionare I shall own the Merlin of my dreams

Until then, I'm happy with my ultra-stiff E5

I agree. the way things are right now, they are making steels and other metal alloys stronger, becuase the weight of a material is governed pretty much by the atomic structure. Then, the metals are made thinner, becuase less is needed for the same strength. the result is that you end up with tubing walls that are .1mm thick, and impossible (not impossible, actually, just $$$$) to weld.

CF I think is still in its infancy, and before long, the teething problems and the fears will slowly melt away, just like when people switched from lugged to tig-welded construction for steel bikes. I also prediuct CF will be getting a lot cheaper. Its not the material thats expensive (carbon is pretty darn plentiful), its the process. processes can be automated and costs can be cut, an early example is the giant carbon bikes. pretty light, good bikes (from what I hear) and not all that expensive.

THat aside, I really want a litespeed tuscany. and when I have 4000 dollars socked away for a bike, its gonna a tuscany.

I agree the Tuscany is one of the best that is why I bought it. I was comparing the difference in ride quality between steel and Ti or CF for that matter and I much prefer Ti over the others, but that is my opinion. And yes it help being older and having the kids grown that is why one of my riding partners calls me a ROBOT <rich old bastard on titanium>, however I didn't pay anymore for my Tuscany than someone would for a high quality steel or CF bike.

By the way I would love to own one of the new waterfords.

I don't care about racing and none of my cyclist friends do either. The dozens of riders on Ti, carbon and steel bikes I talked too during last years Tour de Georgia weren't racers, yet some of them had $5000 bikes.

Al

gabiker just proves, cyclists are never happy with [near] perfection!

It is interesting that their high end bikes come with carbon forks while some of them even come with carbon seat stays...

I think both materials are still in their infancy with respect to their use in road bikes (and my limited first hand knowledge of them).

plus, the tuscany is just simply beautiful. that voluptuous downtube, those curved seatstays...makes my blood boil! haha. add to that the elegant yet baddass Ti look (I dont know why you'd ever paint a Ti bike) and you have a darn good looking bicycle.

This is probably what people that sleep on those beds that have stuff that NASA and Co. invented say except with respect to space travel..

It seems the quest for lighter/stronger (not necessarily more durable) parts in almost any professional sport or money related industry, the non-pro's benefit from the research...

I would agree that CF may be the future of racing. However, the one thing that racing does not require is longevity. You can, and they do, make frames so light that they are disposable.

Ti has the best all around combination of ride characteristics AND it will love you LONG-TIME.

Titanium has a nice ride. It has the springy zing of steel but not quite to the same degree, making it feel lively but not buzzy.

What people never think about, is Titanium is a bit of an environmental nightmare. When you smelt it, the layer that is in contact with the crucible reacts with it and has to be thrown away, making it a very wasteful process. Because of that, thats why I think when you buy titanium, you should look at it as an investment and not some cheap throwaway consumable.

Appart from the nice ride, Ti when designed properly is strong, light, corrosion 'proof', as stiff as you want it to be, customisable ( no 'five-sizes-fits-nobody' BS here ) and has good repairability and great fatigue resistance.

I wouldn't say it's anyone's bastard step child. What more could you want from a material?

I'm waiting on the new material of choice PAPER MACHE. Flex- for that comfortable ride, Light- depending on how much pasty glue you use, Stiff- right up until it collapses, Sleek- Design possibilities are endless (I'm going with the Donkey), Original- Guarantee know one has anything like it, Repairable- Crash and you can fix her up at the back of your car.

What more could you want in a frame material?

Why not put in some candy and attach a wiffle bat to it in case you need some sugar during your ride?

You mean like this one? (Thanks to Davet back in 2003!)

It's an old article, I think originally submitted to VeloNews in installments. The info about CF is somewhat dated, but still good stuff.
https://www2.sjsu.edu/orgs/asmtms/artcle/articl.htm

Do a web search on Scot Nicol if you have questions about the veracity of the author.

My observation among the riders I know or have observed over the years is that the ones with good steel or Ti bikes in their stables seem to hang on to them, and sort of fall back on them as their "gold standards." Actions speak louder than words.

i wanted ti because i'm a poseur and i like that it makes me look like a stronger rider

Doh.. you'd want carbon then.

AMEN baby - the harshness of Aluminum is a little overstated I think, owning several Al bikes. I'm fairly big though, so maybe weight helps.

My father has a Litespeed Ultimate, though, and I have to say it IS a bit smoother ride. Can't say I'm any less tired when I ride his though.

Is there a cf frame out there that is a production frame under two pounds? Like my three year old Litespeed Ghisalo with no weight limit, and a lifetime warranty?

You know most of the new butted comfortable aluminum frames have a limited warranty, because just like the old aluminum frames that were originally made with the same size as the steel tubes, they will break. Right?
Aluminum is not stiffer. Bigger tubes are stiffer, then the aluminum tubes don't flex and break.

Um...steel rusts... and you can't flex it anywhere near as much as ti before it fails. It's not as strong either.

In short .. like many things ..you get what you pay for. Ti has the advantage in all aspects except price. You ask if it's worth it. What something is worth is subjective, you have to decide that for yourself. Everyone will have a different answer.

All of these materials can be made stiff, or flexible, it's the design of the bike.

Like most bikes, Ti bikes are going down.

$2000 for ultegra equiped ti bike?

A 900g Ti frame eh? Wow.

Actually, AL IS stiffer. They use larger tubes to get the strength up. The "AL is stronger than steel" is for the same weight, not size. But the same size AL tube is stffer than a steel one.

Forks:

Reynolds Ouzo Pro, 1 1/8" 420g, $$$

Morati SC Road fork, 1 1/8": 560g, $$$$$

Seat stays:

I get the impression that even established manufacturers like Litespeed are also subject to 'marketing pressure'. I might be wrong, but personally I do not see the point of 'interrupting' a beautiful Titanium frame, glueing in a piece of carbon, probably making things more vulnerable and not (noticeably) better. To each his/her own, but personally I am glad that my 'rear' is Ti.

i obsess more about geometry and fit than material. i see a lot of high end carbon and Ti.... as i race past them....