Steel: Longevity

Aluminum: Stiffness and Power transfer

Carbon Fiber: Light weight

Titanium:? (steel alloys these days just/almost as good as Titaniumm , carbon fiber is lighter, aluminum is stiffer)

EDIT: I'm playing Devil's Advocate Here. Just wondering if Titanium is worth it if I should happen upon a good deal on a Ti frame (ebay/Craigslist)

Ti doesn't rust, and it lasts even longer than steel (fatigue-wise)...at least that's what the litespeed catalog told me.

whether or not it's worth it depends on how much money you have burning a hole in your pocket.

I wonder if Ti is stiff though......I have heard it is very whippy and flexy (I'm sure tubing diameter could correct this however).

Although I am not really sure about the truth of it's whippiness?

myth


Myth


Myth


oh really?!




If you like then get a good Ti Bike from either Litespeed, Merlin or Independant fabrications and live with the extra 100grammes of weight but be amazed how much less beat up you'll feel after riding it for 6hrs..

I never feel beat up after 6 hours rides on my superstiff c'dale, the only thing I feel are my legs hurting. All this talk about comfort/compliance LOL. If you feel pain anywhere but your legs, you simply need an other position, saddle or pedals!

Yes!

All other things being equal, that is. All hype, generalisations, etc. aside, there are superb steel, carbon and aluminium frames on the market, but for me nothing works better than Ti.

ti does not give a whippy ride. THey are nice frames, you can pick up nice ones on ebay for well under retail. It looks nice too

... or lesser tire pressure.

... or padded shorts.

... or ...

But let's not spoil the 'myth' of Ti's riding characteristics. There's way too many people (including yours truly) happily (justifying) riding Ti bikes.

I have a Lemond Zurich which is all 853 Reynolds and a Litespeed Tuscany and I like them both. I do prefer the ride of the Ti over the steel. The Litespeed is just as comfortable, but a heck of a lot more responsive and not soft at all. I would say the steel is the soft one in my case and I have never heard anyone say there Ti bike was spongy or soft and Ti bikes really aren't any more expensive than carbon, or your better alum or steel frames anymore.

I prefer steel because I am not a wealthy man. However, I think for an all around performance-oriented bike, titanium is about the best material there is. The only downside to Ti is cost in my opinion. I don't race, I commute/tour, so steel fits my needs, but if I was racing, I'd bite the bullet and get a Litespeed.

Hi,
it helps being old. The first Ti bikes were kind of whippy. But you get them in any kind of flavor you want nowadays, from ultrastiff to ultraplush, and everything in between. The trick is to find out what is going to work for you.

Ti is one of the best bets to buy used. It's tougher than a boiled owl, and since most are not painted, it ain't easy to hide damage.

Having said all that. I would like disagree just a little with Gabiker. The Litespeed Tuscany is one of the great bikes of all time. It should be compared with the best, because it is among the best. A better comparison would be against one of the better Waterfords (for example). And that is just the sort of thing I wish
bike mags would do more of. Pick an exemplar, like the Tuscany, and keep it around to compare against other bikes in both individual and group tests in that price range.

I have an old steel frame (flexy) and and a new-ish CF frame (stiff). The only thing that ever hurts after a long ride are my legs.

I would much rather ride the CF for 6 hours and ditch the 3-4 lbs than ride the flexy steel. Maybe this 'harsh ride' biz only applies to smaller frame sizes....

I see plenty of pros riding 7 hours on the stiffest frames made...small frames too...

I'm all for titanium.
Take a look at my avatar on the left.

That rod part of my X-ray that goes into my thigh bone...titanium baby!

If steel was almost as good, the USSR would not have spent the Xtra $Billions to use it on their subs. They could go far deeper than ours. It's due in large part to the demise of the USSR that we can afford Titanium as the Russians now export it.

A good Ti frame costs about the same as good steel one. I've had good steel, now I have a good Ti. I like them both. If nothing else, the Ti doesn't rust, corrode, or tarnish. It's my favorite material for frames.

By the way, stiffness on the more expensive frames is more determined today by the shape and internal characteristics (thickness/taper) of the tubes than the material. A frame can be stiff to pedal and flexible for the ride; up to a point. Even my (lower?) mid-priced Airborne Carpe Diem frame uses "shaped tubes"

Al

They didn't have 853 steel (or other fancy alloys) back in the days of the cold war. Not a fair comparison.

i own a custom Steelman and am building a Lightspeed Ultimate. A lot of the characteristics of frames vary by size. My 59cm frame has differing flex than a 51cm framset. And the wheelset and your inflation level also effects the smoothness of your ride. Then there's the stem and seatpost....

Everyone thinks that absolutely no flex is ideal. this is not always true.

Quality Steel and quality Ti is great. and you know what? quality Al is good too. But you have to compare apples to apples. Entry level any material is still entry level.

Ti doesn't take a backseat to anyone. And at what point is weight an issue? my 59cm Ti framset is 3.6 lbs. for a 180 lb rider like myself, i couldn't see going any lower. does a pound or 2 of added weight effect you on the flats? no.

worry about fit and comfort first, then worry about fit and comfort.

nobody.... NOBODY will say that a lightspeed or merlin is a bad frame. NOBODY!!

Before I know if it's fair or not, you'd have to compare the specs of 853 to the particular Titanium. There is not just one Titanium, there are at least several. In other words, you'll have to put some meat on your statement.

Al

Ha......I read somewhere that Reynold's claims there 853 steel has the tensile strength of Ti. I'm no engineer and there are other properties of the 2 materials I don't know about.

I would love to get a litespeed considering that the CF rage has made a lot of lightly used litespeeds very affordable.

For a great explanation of ti attributes take a look at seven.com. They go into great detail about the different tube shapes and the pro's and con's of ti grades. They convinced me. I now have a 2.3 pound alta frame that is stiffer than my litespeed palmares.

Brett,

Alot of serotta owners have commented that their Ti Legends are
almost too stiff. I don't think that Ti is any less stiff than
CF or Steel if it is built properly.

Marty

Good Ti Info on the Habanero site. I just ordered a custom Team frame from them.
https://www.habcycles.com/techstuf.html

Their info seems geared solely to justify their frame and tube designs. Lightspeed, Airborne, Specialized (aluminum mountain bike) tubes are oval. Specialized even increases the diameter of the tube in the horizontal to provide more stiffness at the bottom bracket. Do the tubes have to be oval for a good bike? No, it's just another way to accomplish stiffness and light weight.

Al

Could be, but I have never heard or read a bad review of their bikes...

I thought for bikes, all we cared about was modulus/weight...

Sorry boys, but as beautiful as Ti is, I really think carbon is the future of racing. The technology is still in its infancy, they are only now learning how to really utilize the characteristics of it. However, that in no way diminishes my desire to have a nice Ti bike sitting alongside my steel and carbon bikes in the future. I will admit, if you want a bike you can pass on to your grandchildren as a family heirloom, Ti will allow for that.