I will just ask first: were you referring to me?

lol, Let this one slide. It was my fault for bringing it back up.

Yeah, my bad. I shouldn't have gone there. I'm a bit of a spending grouch personally. But no reason to question others choices.

I guess the asshats show their true colors bianchi10. I mentioned it before, but would you mind posting a summary of what you did and what you learned during your wheel testing? Because of all the other OT drivel, it's impossible for me to glean what your actual experiences were. Maybe even a new thread! Thanks.

Campag and rpen come across as the dbags who lecture customers in bike shops. No different than gym dbags who give unsolicited advice on everything that you're doing wrong. Bianchi made it clear what his goals and desires are, and that he does not nee d further technical input. It seems like the Campag and his rpen don't want to pm each other or start a new thread because it would receive far less attention. It was disappointing to see pdedes act like a dbag because he usually is helpful and not dbaggy. Bianchi, I hope you really enjoy the new wheels...Amy possibility of lime or electric green hubs? Not sure if ck makes them. As usual bob makes a good suggestion, although I think green tape with mango might be coil

Hi Bianchi, I have remained silent through all this because I knew it couldn't possibly end well. I for one have enjoyed your comments about the wheels and hope you end up with a set you are happy with, it certainly sounds like you are being well looked after by someone who knows about building wheels in the real world. I just wanted to ask, if you had gone with the ENVE carbon rims, what spoke count would you have gone for front and rear? Just interested to know if you would have gone for a lower or higher count based on how they rode?

There is a limit to my ability to suffer fools. But I was helpful earlier.

I will respond to you because of the outcry as you are a poster boy for the dissent here. Calling people names. A guy..or is it girl...that doesn't have a clue to either contribute or even assess where the OP ended up is casting aspersion. If you were smarter, you would see the irony...but you are not.

You can't help it and either can the others that piled on including the OP that come from the same dark place of ignorance. The reason for devisiveness is because we come from different walks. I know all the guys that piled on that live in their parent's basements are overwhelmed by their sense of inadequacy and hence their need to criticize. No surprise, those are the same people that have contributed absolutely NOTHING to the substance of this thread. The point of opinion and message boards such as this...is learning and getting to the truth. The way you get there many times involves debate...sometimes heated debate. Those that are incapable of engaging in technical discussion have to deride to feel a bit better about themselves. This sadly is a common dynamic on not just this board but others. Truth is guys like Robert and I probably shouldn't be here. We are speaking to a very small group that are like minded because of our training. Let's face it, overall knowledge base is very low here and largely comprised of the name callers because they aren't thoughtful.

A last note as many...again among the uniformed, don't understand why a thread degrades...or comment 'this always happens.' This occurs because the thread has run its course and has really come to its conclusion. The OP after much contemplation has decided on the best wheels for him. The only next step left is for him to have them built and come back and let us know how he likes them...whether or not to change the spokes or not.
The sidebar that ensued near the end of this thread about wheel building is interesting to those...again those whom mainly contributed to the substance of the thread. Those that are a bit more clueless found that distracting. I hope that makes sense. The reason the thread ultimately derailled is because the thread had run its course. On balance, aside from the division, it was a pretty good ride.

Anyway...that's an overview. A last note to the name callers...those that NEVER contribute any substance other than criticize others...even with your meager mentality...its just bike parts. It a hobby. In the grand scheme it means nothing...a distraction from our daily lives. It should be fun. For some of us...which includes many of the techs that actually contributed to this thread...that means seeking the truth. That is fun for us. For others and perhaps the majority, that isn't your definition of fun and hence the divide.

Robert, I suggest you don't post any more in this thread. I really enjoyed your comments and our discussion including with many others.
I'm out.

Ha ha ha, that's hilarious. So on page 15, after one ride on the Enve rims, a poster decides to ask the OP "have you no self-respect" for wanting to buy expensive rims and Campag says that is a natural occurrence of a thread that has run its course. Ignore the fact that the OP continued to ride/test these rims and give feedback and hadn't made a choice yet, the substance of that post was so out there anyone who had any interest in this thread would ask why posters would bring it down or say that "this always happens". Some people will defend any behavior if they are a part of it. This is just another attempt by this poster to brag about his self-deluded importance ("I can afford a garage full of Env-i-e wheels") and tell us how much more informed he is than the masses. Again, tell us why it wouldn't be a natural occurrence to simply start a new thread on wheelbuilding and use this thread as a reference point.

Yikes - switch to decaf and take a valium. It's the effin internet. Need to be a little more thick skinned I'd say. You said it yourself:

I will respond to this even though I am certain it wont do any good and you will reply with a comment that will try to defend yourself. I am not judging or accusing, but you have shown in this thread that you seem to be the type of person to never back down and just stand back with hands up and say...ok, fair enough.

"its just bike parts. It a hobby. In the grand scheme it means nothing...a distraction from our daily lives. It should be fun." I agree with this. It was fun until you "techs" derailed the thread into something YOU thought was fun, while us not so smart people sat here and had to use google definitions to try and piece together what you were possibly saying. If you or anyone else felt that the thread was coming to an end and run its course or no longer entertaining for you, then stay out of it. No need to change the entire direction of the thread just because you can longer focus on the baseline reason for the thread in the first place. If your tolerance to "suffer" is at its limit, then move the hell on. just because you are bored doesn't mean we are. And to be honest, I cant really recall what exactly you were helpful with. (pdedes)

Maybe you and pdiddy decided that this thread had no where else to go, but it remains obvious that there are several people, including myself that still have an interest to keep it going. At least Rpen was able to submit after realizing that it wasn't about trying to get me or anyone else to understand the facts and numbers. I would imagine most of us stupid folk would agree with me that the main reason this thread has come close to running its course was because of OT wheel building which had nothing to do with My intentions.

I'm sure you will come back and dissect every sentence and turn it around on me as if I'm the idiot, which I'm expecting. Just please respect the fact that I and several other people are still interested in carrying this thread for the on topic information. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks for telling us the plan guys!

Man I wish this post could be cleaned up, perhaps the wheel building tech stuff moved to a new thread or something, or even to the existing wheel building thread.

Bianchi perhaps you could do like I've seen done in long-running car build threads on the Honda forums, some of which run for years and several hundred pages: make an index in your first post with links to yours posts within the thread where you first tested each wheelset, or perhaps posted pics or any other thoughts and reviews on what you were testing. Might make it easier for newcomers to get to the "heart" of why you started this thread in the first place.

For example, you could have this link among a list of others: Test Ride #2 of H Plus Son wheels

Patrick... Great idea. Thank you. I will do that when infer home.

Yes, yes I am. Every time the OP brings up something or other, you continue to ram him with some new factoid to consider. Now you're telling him to let it rest, but you preface that with a paragraph about spokes. This lead to my obvious conclusion.

IMO, bianchi should just stop looking at this thread altogether, go order his wheels, and report back after he's had some time on them.

Wheels have already been ordered. 2 days ago ;-)

Excellent! Looking forward to your report. I'm very happy with my wheels that have those same HED rims.

Gold hubs!?! No matter, excited for you and also looking forward to your feedback.

Joel, everything above that you said is correct. I just ask you to consider this. I tell him none of it matters, and make no further post. He comes back with another assertion that technically wrong is technically right. He can't let it go. I have three choices: 1) Keep my mouth shut, and let him believe the lie; 2) Ignore the technical issue completely and once again just reassure him that all will be well; 3) Correct his error (I think very gently) and also reassure him it doesn't matter. Unlike earlier in the thread I am making no preemptive comments; just replying to direct inquiries. In truth any of the three possible responses would be correct depending upon the responder's personality. Different people are made differently both giving information and receiving it. Asshattedness is a relative thing. There is no absolute, only relative to the person making the judgement. Is it any surprise I feel about many folks here the same way they feel about me? I shouldn't think so.

So I will sum it up. You want to talk about how lovely your wheels are or will be. No comment from me except maybe a "yeah, man, you go dude!" Or possibly a "mango, mango, mango." But you want to assert black is white. I will tell you are wrong and why. Like it or not, that is what you get.

New Guy comes in and BAM. makes a great suggestion ive never seen here. A thousand blessings from our lord Odin.

interesting points. all of them.

Fricken yeah!

Yeah we do that in my cell phone forums. I should have thought of that. Great suggestion!

Proverbs 26:4

Do not answer fools according to their folly,
or you will be a fool yourself.

Proverbs 26:5

Answer fools according to their folly,
or they will be wise in their own eyes.