The funds should clear immediately in that the funds will be in the seller's pp account immediately. Also, even if a seller does have a lot of positive feedback, pp has been instituting a a practice of holding back a slush fund of about 30% of the sellers pp funds (for those that don't have a lot of feedback as sellers, pp with withhold funds only on transactions above a certain dollar amount [$300ish?]).

Since we're on the subject, this is a part of my main reason for not doing business on ebay any longer. pp is a sham. They're licensing varies by state, but they're never anything more than a money transmitter. As such, withholding funds for longer than 10 days overreaches their licensing. They settled quietly in CA about 10 years ago in a class action and they've recently added wording to their user agreement that you can only go to arbitration against them.

i signed up to buy one item and never used it again. i could never find anything that beat the price of online shops not on ebay.

If anything, ebay/pp is stacked against the seller, not the buyer.

I thought they changed that. A seller can give positive feedback or report a problem...but not give negative feedback? I've had a few items that weren't quite in the condition described, but my overall experience has been pretty darn good.

Unless something has changed recently, sellers can not give buyers negative feedback.

Good choice! Ebay is self-destructing...and with their high fees and Naziistic policies, and the buyer fraud they enable, Ebay is usually not the place to get a bargain anymore. Not to mention that a lot of the small sellers on Ebay are people selling seconds/salvage merchandise out of a self-storage unit; so if you're buying something new, you really don't know what you're getting.

About the shipping times/fine print, though- do understand that those shipping estimates are put on there by Ebay, and the seller has no control over them; and they do not include the time it takes for an eCheck to clear. PayEnemy nowhere tells the buyer how long it may delay their shipment if they fund PP via a checking account...and they should!

Yes, PayPal clears immediately...when funded with your PayPal balance or a credit card...but not when funded through your checking account.

The whole thing is just becoming SO dysfunctional!

-Former pro Ebay seller of big-ticket items [I quit 5 years ago, when all the absurd and abusive new policies went into effect. I used to love Ebay. I've sold things there for as much as $18.5K - Today I wouldn't sell a $50 item there!]

It will feel good not to have to play games when all you want is to make a purchase.

CC is great! And they are now a Utah based company.:thumb: 'Cept now I have to pay sales tax.:(

This is true. As a customer your only real role in the transaction is to pay for the item. Given that the vendor won't ship until payment is received, there is no reason to give negative feedback so it was removed as a viable action. I too find ebay is stacked against the seller. Mind you, it's really stacked in favor of ebay/pp.

As a small-time seller, it's ridiculous how much they squeeze out of you with transaction fees, final value fees and pp fees.

As a buyer, I'll often peruse ebay for items and, if there's a B&M behind the ebay storefront, I'll call and deal with them directly.

That's a hoot! They treat YOU like you're a crook, but yet, you're the one who is most likely to be robbed by a fraudulent buyer, enabled by Ebay's dysfunctional policies. Ebay has become the world's biggest grab-bag for free electronics/designer merchandise.

I would never sell anything of value on Ebay anymore. All a buyer has to do is claim that the item you sent is SNAD [Significantly Not As Described], and send you back their old broken one with delivery confirmation...or take a needed part out of yours and replace it with an old broken part...or send you back a brick....and as long as they have delivery confirmation, Ebay will snatch back their payment from you and refund them. Happens EVERY day. It's insanity. And that's just the tip of the iceberg- there are a million other scams.

Us former sellers have a saying: "Don't sell anything on Ebay that you can't afford to give away".

Nice quotation, but you should have credited the author: Mark Twain.

I will. I should be able to try them out this weekend.

Not saying you are wrong. I have had my share of disfunctional transactions too. And the feedback function is a joke. Who says anyhting bad about a seller? And if they do, it gets so diluted by all the other feedback, you don't know what to think. But here is the thing: where are you going to buy titanium stem bolts or aluminum water bottle cage bolts? Where are you going to find a VAR "tyre" tool? Etc, etc. All in almost one click. It is just too easy from the buyers' point of view.

As a buyer or a seller, if you self insure, that is figure in some fraction of loss despite the protection plans, you will still make out big time. What you said about not selling what you can't afford to lose, makes sense. Just realize that you won't lose it every time. That is what I mean by self insurance. There is some fraction of loss that you can afford, and even on ebay it is unlikely you will exceed it. Just don't think that you will lose every time, and price your goods to take the inevitable rare loss into account.

It is like the biggest market place for any and every item you may want. How can you justify going any place else first?

Problem is: Between figuring-in the expected losses for self-insurance, plus the high fees Ebay/PayEnemy now charge, you could not afford to be competitive. Notice, that except for very small/Chinese-made items, Ebay is no longer the place to find the best deals. The Asian sellers actually have a big advantage on Ebay, as they essentially are not exposed to the fraud that US sellers are exposed to, because a scamming buyer can not get Delivery Confirmation when returning something to China.

If you're selling $5 items that may've cost you $1....the fraud isn't much of an issue- but you'll never make any money selling $5 items. Sell items for hundreds or thousands of dollars...then just one fraud has big consequences.

And even with the self-insurance [Greyhound even self-insures their buses!]...under today's rules, if you are victimized by too many fraudulent buyers, YOU will be shut down, because every dispute which is opened against you, counts against your record.

The buyers truly have all the power on Ebay today. Many fraudsters work merely by threatening the seller with a dispute or negative feedback (Ebay will boot you if your feedback falls below [I think it is] 97%)....sellers arte so scared, that many will fold, immediately and give in to the fraudster......and this perpetuates the problem, because then there is not even a string of habitual returns on the fraudster's record...but it looks squeaky clean.

Anyone who may be interested in seeing how bad it is, just have a look at the Seller Central discussion board on Ebay
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum/Seller-Central/143?
where you'll see hapless sellers every day who are victimized by all the various scams and by Ebay itself.

I should write a book: 101 Ways To Get Screwed On Ebay.

Another eye-opener: Go to Youtube, and search "How to get free merchandise on Ebay".

It's a big internet and there are ways to find and buy crap that don't involve places with a) practices that entice fraud and b) don't have an unscrupulous payment processing arm.

I've had better luck selling bicycle related goods on Pinkbike. No fees at all. It's not as big a market as ebay but it's focused on bikes. And free.

Yeah. I was too lazy to google it.

Thanks for that. So...what keeps an unscrupulous buyer from leaving 'all' sellers with bad feedback...no matter how good their products and shipping?
Can a seller contest feedback that has been given? A 'unilateral' feedback system seems to pander to buyers..or buyers with unrealistic expectations... if buyers can't be left bad feedback.
Further thoughts?

Feedback was always kind of an illusion, even before whatever the current policy wrinkles are. Back when I was selling - 10,000 feedback per year - I could never see the upside of my leaving bad feedback for a customer. No matter what he did, what's in it for me? So I automated it with the API, randomly saying something great about every customer, randomly selected from a list of hundreds. So the buyer FB even then wasn't realistic. As for our fb, I didn't really care because you're right: anything I might not like would scroll off the page within a day.

Convenience, confidence, general principle. And to be honest, there are good niche market merchants on the internet and for a lot of general products you can't really beat Amazon.

I don't think I'd ever sell something on ebay after hearing the horror stories about the gouging by ebay and PayPay. I would not buy any new high value item off ebay. I tend to use ebay only for purchasing C&V parts that I can't get locally.

Sad thing is, your competition can buy from you, and then leave you unwarranted negative feedback and destroy your business and reputation. There are psycho buyers who leave negative feedback for 75% of the hundreds of transactions they do on Ebay [One has to wonder, if their experiences are truly that bad, why do they keep buying there?] and Ebay does nothing. And no matter what, even on the rare occasions when Ebay does impose a sanction on a buyer...it doesn't matter, because one can just start a new account- all that is required is a different email address- as Ebay does not verify the identity of buyers [only sellers].

By contrast, other venues like Amazon, are much more conscientious. They verify the identity of all participants, and do not allow banned members to come back with another account; They only allow a very limited number of returns/disputes, before investigating and banning a problem buyer; They flag those who habitually leave predominantly negative feedback. etc.

It' a shame. Ebay used to be a great site- for everyoine, from casual sellers wanting to just sell unwanted items; small-timers wanting to make a few extra bucks...to professional sellers and even big retailers. Now it is a wretched place that enables rampant fraud and cultivates universal disdain. And they have especially spit in the faces of the very people who made them successful initially- the small mom & pop sellers and average-joes. Over the past 4 or 5 years, they have actively sought to get rid of such, in favor of big corporate sellers, and I do believe their policies are engineered specifically to make the small sellers fail or quit in disgust. Their policies are also not consistent- or instance: Bad feedback on the accounts of big corporate megasellers will magically disappear....while even obviously unwarranted bad feedback on small seller's accounts will stay forever.

Basically the only people who will tolerate such an atmosphere are the desperate, and those who don't care because they are crooked. Ebay has run-off all the good sellers...they are destroying their own business- and their plan of dumping small sellers in favor of big corporate ones, is not working, as the big corporate ones are leaving- finding it less profitable to sell on Ebay than through their own websites.

The current CEO of Ebay, John Donahoe- a former member of Bain Capitol, and a corporate raider who was schooled in the dysfunctional theory of "Disruptive Innovation" [which has ruined every corporation where it has been practiced] has virtually ruined Ebay.

I like ebay. If you are cheap and patient like me you can get awesome deals. People are always selling bike stuff that is barely used.
I dropped about 2 lbs off my road bike for only $75 after buying and selling stuff. Pretty much all the $75 i lost was in seller fees. I saved somewhere between $800-1000 for basically new stuff

Non cycling related: I also just bought a $900 multimeter for $110. Was pretty much new.

Thanks for your comments. All and all I have been pretty 'lucky' on ebay with both selling and purchases. I also have 100% feedback. The way I roll is...I have a 0 return policy...or at least that is what stated...but if a buyer buys something and takes exception to what he gets...I work with him pretty thoroughly to ensure he is happy. I would say most...even those with unrealistic expectations can be worked with. If not...I cut 'em a small deal and refund a small amount of their purchasing price to make them happy. The need for this almost never happens...only ocassionally.

I will tell you a quick story which speaks to the moral decency of some on ebay even in this jaded day we live in. I bought a groupset a while back on ebay...I always write the seller before hand with some questions of the bigger ticket items to get a good calibration of condition and almost never get burned...and I got into a small bidding war with another buyer because it was a good deal and I won the auction. The seller contacted me right after the auction...and we had some previous nice discussions about cycling...and he 'paid it forward' by remitting my Paypal account on the order of $70. This was completely unsollicited and his good will. He believe I overpaid. I never forgot this. Yes, I have rarely got a raw deal on ebay on ocassion..but clearly sold stuff that went for less than market value...stems come to mind :)...and sometimes more than I though the product was worth...but there are honest people out there as well...lots of them.
I believe part of my success is full disclosure. I tell the prospective buyer everything...no surprises.

Hopefully some changes will be forthcoming based upon many of your good concerns.

I am not a big seller but I certainly funnel my used stuff back through ebay and have had no problems. No I am not happy about ebay selling fees or Paypal fees and this is largely why I don't buy or sell more on there. I buy a fair amount off Amazon...and many on line bike companies as well.
Cheers.

Sure, but you could also prowl the slowtwitch classifieds. Tri-geek gear turnover is something to behold.