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Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 15377835)
Sure, but you could also prowl the slowtwitch classifieds. Tri-geek gear turnover is something to behold.
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Pay Pal has its faults, no doubt. Just one question: Why would you begrudge them the same fee as credit cards get? Aren't they doing the same thing for businesses that can't operate a credit card function?
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Originally Posted by Elduderino2412
(Post 15377856)
Are you protected as a buyer when purchasing items like on Ebay?
No, the forums are self-policed, but it's not unusual to see some of the same names here (BF) as you will there (ST) - much smaller pool of people that turn over gear pretty regularly and are certainly not looking to earn a reputation as a cheat. |
Originally Posted by Campag4life
(Post 15377820)
Thanks for your comments. All and all I have been pretty 'lucky' on ebay with both selling and purchases. I also have 100% feedback. The way I roll is...I have a 0 return policy...or at least that is what stated...but if a buyer buys something and takes exception to what he gets...I work with him pretty thoroughly to ensure he is happy. I would say most...even those with unrealistic expectations can be worked with. If not...I cut 'em a small deal and refund a small amount of their purchasing price to make them happy. The need for this almost never happens...only ocassionally.
I will tell you a quick story which speaks to the moral decency of some on ebay even in this jaded day we live in. I bought a groupset a while back on ebay...I always write the seller before hand with some questions of the bigger ticket items to get a good calibration of condition and almost never get burned...and I got into a small bidding war with another buyer because it was a good deal and I won the auction. The seller contacted me right after the auction...and we had some previous nice discussions about cycling...and he 'paid it forward' by remitting my Paypal account on the order of $70. This was completely unsollicited and his good will. He believe I overpaid. I never forgot this. Yes, I have rarely got a raw deal on ebay on ocassion..but clearly sold stuff that went for less than market value...stems come to mind :)...and sometimes more than I though the product was worth...but there are honest people out there as well...lots of them. I believe part of my success is full disclosure. I tell the prospective buyer everything...no surprises. Hopefully some changes will be forthcoming based upon many of your good concerns. I am not a big seller but I certainly funnel my used stuff back through ebay and have had no problems. No I am not happy about ebay selling fees or Paypal fees and this is largely why I don't buy or sell more on there. I buy a fair amount off Amazon...and many on line bike companies as well. Cheers. Me, I've always been a do-unto-others-as-you'd-want-them-to-do-unto-you type. I have no problem working with people with legitimate complaints- although I rarely have a customer with a legit complaint, because I pay attention to detail and do the right thing to begin with...but of course, sometimes there are circumstances beyond one's control; anything can happen- and I'll always do what it take to make the customer whole and then some. It's just that on Ebay these days, one can be held hostage by the increasing numbers of unreasonable buyers, and out-right scammers. That is my main beef. You can't have a no-return policy on Ebay- not even on "as is" or "parts only" or "repairable" items. Fact is, if you sell on Ebay, you are essentially giving the buyer an unconditional 45 day warranty. Even Walmart has tightened up their return policy, because of all the people who were taking undue advantage...but not Ebay. Go buy an electronic car part at the autoparts store- "No return on electrical items". Buy that same part on Ebay....you can return it for 45 days...even if you fry it. The degree of fraud varies by category though. Things like cell phones and iPuds and computers have staggeringly high raters of fraud on Ebay. Same with clothing- someone'll buy a prom dress or piece of formal attire; wear it once to the intended function, and then return it for a refund [often with stains or other damage]- selling clothing on Ebay, you may as well be in the rental business these days! On the other hand, I started out selling antique tractor parts on Ebay- I never had a problem; had a great customer base of nice people....'cause generally, the 65 year-old guy restoring grandpappy's 1948 Ford 8N to drive in the parade with the grand-daughter on his lap, isn't looking to scam you. :D I would imagine bike parts would be fairly tame too- until one got into the really expensive stuff...... |
I do not sell on eBay anymore because I got tired of the nickel and diming between eBay and PayPal. I still buy there, but if I find a credible alternative to the bike stuff I sometimes get there, then it's sayonara to eBay. And that is because of the dishonesty of sellers I have encountered there regarding condition of items. And sometimes, if the price of the item in question is not substantial, you simply eat the loss.
Every dishonest crook, their mother and uncle has now established an eBay account, it sometimes seems. And don't get me started on PayPal. They love the float too much! |
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
(Post 15377873)
Pay Pal has its faults, no doubt. Just one question: Why would you begrudge them the same fee as credit cards get? Aren't they doing the same thing for businesses that can't operate a credit card function?
Buyer files a dispute and sends you back a brick instead of the disputed item? As long as they have delivery confirmation, PayEnemy is taking your money...there's no fighting it. |
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
(Post 15377873)
Pay Pal has its faults, no doubt. Just one question: Why would you begrudge them the same fee as credit cards get? Aren't they doing the same thing for businesses that can't operate a credit card function?
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Originally Posted by Jed19
(Post 15377915)
I do not sell on eBay anymore because I got tired of the nickel and diming between eBay and PayPal. I still buy there, but if I find a credible alternative to the bike stuff I sometimes get there, then it's sayonara to eBay. And that is because of the dishonesty of sellers I have encountered there regarding condition of items. And sometimes, if the price of the item in question is not substantial, you simply eat the loss.
Every dishonest crook, their mother and uncle has now established an eBay account, it sometimes seems. And don't get me started on PayPal. They love the float too much! That's the irony of modern Ebay- TYhey have all these policies, which were supposedly imposed to protect buyers.....but because of their unfairness and potential for abuse, they have resulted in most of the good-old sellers abandoning Ebay....and all that are left are fly-by-nighters and crooks, who don't care about the logn-term, and who are just out to make a quick buck by whatever means they can. At the same time that it is so dangerous to sell on Ebay...I have also never seen so many bad sellers and clueless noobs. Ebay never cared that all the good old long-haul sellers who had been there for 10 years were leaving, because they said that new ones would just come in and replace them...but trouble is, those new ones are often clueless amateurs who get spit out in two weeks....or scammers who take what they can for as long as they can survive. |
Originally Posted by MetalPedaler
(Post 15377908)
Thank you for the nice story! It's always nice to hear the positive things for a change.
Me, I've always been a do-unto-others-as-you'd-want-them-to-do-unto-you type. I have no problem working with people with legitimate complaints- although I rarely have a customer with a legit complaint, because I pay attention to detail and do the right thing to begin with...but of course, sometimes there are circumstances beyond one's control; anything can happen- and I'll always do what it take to make the customer whole and then some. It's just that on Ebay these days, one can be held hostage by the increasing numbers of unreasonable buyers, and out-right scammers. That is my main beef. You can't have a no-return policy on Ebay- not even on "as is" or "parts only" or "repairable" items. Fact is, if you sell on Ebay, you are essentially giving the buyer an unconditional 45 day warranty. Even Walmart has tightened up their return policy, because of all the people who were taking undue advantage...but not Ebay. Go buy an electronic car part at the autoparts store- "No return on electrical items". Buy that same part on Ebay....you can return it for 45 days...even if you fry it. The degree of fraud varies by category though. Things like cell phones and iPuds and computers have staggeringly high raters of fraud on Ebay. Same with clothing- someone'll buy a prom dress or piece of formal attire; wear it once to the intended function, and then return it for a refund [often with stains or other damage]- selling clothing on Ebay, you may as well be in the rental business these days! On the other hand, I started out selling antique tractor parts on Ebay- I never had a problem; had a great customer base of nice people....'cause generally, the 65 year-old guy restoring grandpappy's 1948 Ford 8N to drive in the parade with the grand-daughter on his lap, isn't looking to scam you. :D I would imagine bike parts would be fairly tame too- until one got into the really expensive stuff...... I do know that all companies are touchy about electronics...I build my own computers and am into electrical stuff and know how easily it can be compromised and even mis-assessed relative to functional status. Funny you mention antique tractors. I live on a 50 acre farm and know the farming culture...or have learned about it since moving from the city. Country boys are passionate about their tractors and as you say antique tractor hobbyists are likely pretty decent people. Tractors are kind of cool really. Cheers. |
Originally Posted by Campag4life
(Post 15378003)
Funny you mention antique tractors. I live on a 50 acre farm and know the farming culture...or have learned about it since moving from the city. Country boys are passionate about their tractors and as you say antique tractor hobbyists are likely pretty decent people. Tractors are kind of cool really. Cheers. |
Originally Posted by MetalPedaler
(Post 15378049)
Hehe...same here! I'm originally from NYC...now have 28 acres in the sticks...and love it! I'll never set foot in NY again! (Eery time I open my mouth, first thing I hear from others is "You ain't from around here, are ya?" :D)
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Here's something funny re: scamming on ebay. I just bought a bike part but never received it. PO says it was delivered. It was tracked but not insured or signature confirmed. When the seller blew me off, I gave them negative feedback. I believe if there is no insurance, the seller has to make good on lost merchandise. In the face of bad feedback, the seller capitulated and refunded my money. SO, I acted like a scammer, but was completely on the up and up. The areas people are identifying as problems do really help the honest buyer. How can you squelch the scammers and still protect the honest buyers?
Robert |
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
(Post 15378387)
Here's something funny re: scamming on ebay. I just bought a bike part but never received it. PO says it was delivered. It was tracked but not insured or signature confirmed. When the seller blew me off, I gave them negative feedback. I believe if there is no insurance, the seller has to make good on lost merchandise. In the face of bad feedback, the seller capitulated and refunded my money. SO, I acted like a scammer, but was completely on the up and up. The areas people are identifying as problems do really help the honest buyer. How can you squelch the scammers and still protect the honest buyers?
Robert |
Originally Posted by MetalPedaler
(Post 15377908)
It's just that on Ebay these days, one can be held hostage by the increasing numbers of unreasonable buyers, and out-right scammers. That is my main beef. You can't have a no-return policy on Ebay- not even on "as is" or "parts only" or "repairable" items. Perhaps this policy has changed. Many of the parts for sale on ebay have no returns policys on the adds. I believe this changed when they instituted the buyer protection plan that comes with a lot of the transactions. |
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
(Post 15378387)
Here's something funny re: scamming on ebay. I just bought a bike part but never received it. PO says it was delivered. It was tracked but not insured or signature confirmed. When the seller blew me off, I gave them negative feedback. I believe if there is no insurance, the seller has to make good on lost merchandise. In the face of bad feedback, the seller capitulated and refunded my money. SO, I acted like a scammer, but was completely on the up and up. The areas people are identifying as problems do really help the honest buyer. How can you squelch the scammers and still protect the honest buyers?
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Originally Posted by ls01
(Post 15378548)
Perhaps this policy has changed. Many of the parts for sale on ebay have no returns policys on the adds. I believe this changed when they instituted the buyer protection plan that comes with a lot of the transactions.
Regardless of your return policy, all sellers must adhere to eBay's policy for sellers, which include accepting a returned item if it doesn’t match the listing’s description. |
Originally Posted by ls01
(Post 15378548)
Perhaps this policy has changed. Many of the parts for sale on ebay have no returns policys on the adds. I believe this changed when they instituted the buyer protection plan that comes with a lot of the transactions.
At least years ago, when there was mutual feedback, you coulde spot the troublemakers and cancel their bids/block them- but now you can't even do that. |
Sad thing is, too- a legitimate buyer may see "no returns" and think that it means what it says, and be disuaded from seeking remedy through Ebay to a legitimate issue- while a scamming buyer knows the ins and outs of Ebay policy, and takes advantage of the situation. So allowing sellers to state "no returns" when in-fact returns are possible on every Ebay transactions (except for vehicles and heavy equipment), is just another detriment to sincere Ebayers.
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 15378610)
Really? Are you just coming up to speed on this now? How many times has it been stated in this thread that ebay enables scammers? ebay's answer is to, almost universally, treat the seller as the offending party.
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
(Post 15378892)
You missed my point. Not everyone who says the goods were broken or didn't arrive or whatever is a scammer. The system does do what it is supposed to do, protect buyers. That it also enables scammers is wrong, and a fix is required. But leaving buyers without recourse is not the solution. I don't know about you, but I really value the protection.
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
(Post 15376137)
The negative feedback would be that he didn't ship the product in the time frame he promised in his listing. If there's going to be a hold on the paypal payment, he should say so, not require Paypal as the payment method and represent that pay pal clears immediately.
Imagine the confusion on the otherside when I was attempting to have 'positive' feedback removed from my account on a different auction site. I had listed a pair of wheels as "being recieved as a spare set of used training wheels with my wifes bike." "I have no knowledge of their history, so, can't comment on milage or respond to any other questions about them, other than to say the bearings seem smooth and they appear to run true. Being sold as is/where as. Suggest you come have a look if you have any concerns." The buyer got into a bidding war and overpayed. After he recieved goods, he asked for a discount and partial refund, which I declined. So, he placed 'positive' feedback about how I failed to include details about the item like scuffs to the brake track and scratches in the finish, etc., etc, etc, but, 'all good now' at the end of his messege if anyone bothered to read that far. |
Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 15378752)
From ebay (my bolding) -
MP is saying that all a buyer has to do is state that the product received is significantly different than described and that there's really nothing that the seller can do to combat it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HED-Ardennes...item3ccfa4ca5c Right in the add where it stipulates returns. |
What a wondrously nutty world. No returns accepted doesnt mean that they dont accept returns? I just dont buy from a seller with that in their add. It just doesnt feel like a good idea to me.
167 transactions without a single problem. I only buy though, I havent needed to sell so I cant comment about that side of their business. |
So, I started this thread as a pissedd off rant.
Based on my experience , nd the comments here, my conclusion is that Enay may still be ok for sourcing unique stuff, and bargains on smaller items. But im gerald I'm going to steer c.ear, particularly for high dollar items. |
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
(Post 15378892)
You missed my point. Not everyone who says the goods were broken or didn't arrive or whatever is a scammer. The system does do what it is supposed to do, protect buyers. That it also enables scammers is wrong, and a fix is required. But leaving buyers without recourse is not the solution. I don't know about you, but I really value the protection.
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