One might think so- but consider things, like: In one quarter, Amazon's sales were up something like 27%....while Ebay's were up....1.7%. Consider that Ebay is alienating so many customers, both sellers [for reasons already mentioned] and buyers [not being able to find what they want due to their favorite sellers leaving and a dysfunctional search engine which "figures out *what they really want*" by using Al-Gore-rhythms, instead of just displaying what they search for- among other factors], that they must rely on tactics like acquiring new customers to replace the departing (which is much more expensive than keeping existing customers) which may keep them afloat a little longer, but which ultimately is not a valid way to cultivate long-term business.

Despite Ebay's take of high revenue, they aren't actually making much profit off of that revenue. The main thing keeping Ebay afloat, is the profits from Ebay-owned PayPal. I would say that if it weren't for PayPal, Ebay would be bankrupt already.

One thing which says more than any balance statement: At the Post Office in the little town closest to where I live, prior to '08, there was always a line of people at the counter- all Ebay sellers, shipping packages. 6 months after Donahoe took over.....those lines were gone. I've never had to wait on a line at that PO again- not once in the last 5 years.

I used to do most of my online purchases on Ebay. Now, about all I buy there are occasional DVDs and a few little <$5 items. In the past, I not only sold on Ebay, but also managed the accounts of two other people. In total, we generated on average about $36K a year in Ebay/PP fees. They don't get a dime from us now.

There has been a mass exodus of small sellers over the last few years. Even former Ebay cheerleaders are now jumping ship...and it is not only expensive for Ebay to recruit new sellers to replace the departed...but those new sellers don't last long- either getting booted because they can't keep up with Ebay's insane and tyrannical policies...or quitting in disgust; they're not like the people whom they replaced, who were there for the long-haul- often having 10 years of experience on Ebay. And now, as mentioned previously, even the big corporate sellers are jumping ship one by one.

They can cater to unreasonable buyers and scammers all they want, but if you go to Ebay and can't find what you're looking for [for me, it was always the vintage and used one-of-a-kind items!] or can find it cheaper elsewhere.....that will reflect in Ebay's bottom line- even if they can hide it through creative accounting, and fool the stockholders for a while.

A seller can accept MO's/checks...but is not allowed to advertise that fact, nor solicit such payments- and he is obliged to accept PayPal. Sad thing is, Ebay will penalize you if more than a certain percentage of your transactions are done outside of PayPal- even though you didn't solicit such payments, and it was through the buyer's preference. Such is the insanity of Ebay these days.

You gave negative feedback to a seller who did exactly as he was supposed to do? The tracking showed the item delivered, why should he have to refund you? He didn't deserve the treatment you gave him. You weren't on the up and up, IMO.

I asked him for a bit more info about this earlier and he didn't respond. As a seller, I too would be reluctant to provide a refund for something I know was properly shipped and tracked. This maybe a time I would have to to take a hit on my feedback score if I did what I was supposed to do.

Good post. Clearly a changing dynamic on ebay. You have pulled back and so have many including me...I only go there to put some of the bike parts I no longer use back into the gene pool. Many rants about ebay and paypal on the web...likely many for good reason. Also agree that Paypal subsidizes ebay in large part.

I do, but then I've only ever used my balance to buy other things (rarely sell and never through ebay). I've always been too afraid to let them have access to my bank account. But then I'm also the sort that never uses my debit card for anything (and try to get the wife to do the same) and pay for everything with credit card/cash, so that it's easier to keep my checkbook balanced and always know how much I have where. When you're poor (by my standards anyway), it's important to know how much you have and where.

I've sold a saddle to someone (not on ebay, but here to someone who only had 10 posts, so maybe I should have been more leery), and they claimed they got an empty box that had been opened. I called their post office, talked to the actual postman who delivered the package and said the box had been a little banged up but still was sealed and he could hear something inside of it. I then got back with the buyer and told him that I'd talked to his postman, and it sounded like someone had stolen it out of his mailbox, and he really needed to contact his local police. If he sent me a copy of his police report, I'd split the cost with him. I never heard back from him, and, perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not, last I checked he hadn't ever come back to bikeforums, at least with that username. If I had been someone who sold things at volume on e-bay and was worried about my feedback more than the cash, I probably would have just paid him to shut him up and walked away without taking the time to do my homework. Instead, I was a poor grad student with more time than money, found evidence that either he was trying to scam me or he got robbed and left it up to him, and decided to not give him the refund (and spent all the money in my paypal account on e-bay purchases quickly before he could go to them and get it back). What I've learned from that is to be careful in who I sell to and also always buy insurance.

How do you keep your balance up in Paypal if you don't sell stuff on ebay?
So you have only a credit card linked to your Paypal account?
Thanks

In answer to the basic question about making your cc default, no even without a PP balance, your checki g accoun will always be the default. It has become much easier to change it withe the new connectivity between ebay and PP. Also. Easier on the smart phone apps.

I usually don't keep my paypal balance up. I typically only have a balance if I sell something to someone (for example on the Marketplace here). Then I use that money to buy something or things and pay for the extra costs with my credit card. But yeah, I have a verified address for shipping and stuff and have only had my credit card linked to the account. The pain in the ass thing is that my wife also has a paypal account (which she has used to sell some things in e-bay, but it's been 5-6 years) and her account is linked to our rewards credit card (we only have two credit cards - one that offers rewards but has higher fees so isn't universally accepted and one that's accepted everywhere). Paypal won't let two accounts be linked to the same credit card, so mine has to be linked to the card that doesn't offer rewards. Things may have changed, but that's how it worked when we both set our our accounts ages ago, so we may have been grandfathered in (I know e-bay does that with some of their policies like my e-bay username used to be the same as part of my e-mail which was allowed in the 90's when I set up my account, but disallowed in the early 00's, but I was allowed to keep my name until a couple years back when I had to do a password reset).

I have occasionally thought about slowly putting a little bit every month into my paypal account to make a slush fund to buy larger things later, but that apparently would require linking it to my bank account so I just save up in the bank account and keep track there instead and keep the interest rather than letting paypal have it. Sure I could make a separate bank account as a "saving for big things like bikes" account but it's not that much work to keep track that I've saved xdollars for other purchases.

If I had a bank account with a lot of money in it...yes, this would be liability. My checking account I have linked is deliberately kept with low funds so no big deal.

All my accounts are low, but not deliberately!

I remember no response asking for more info, but I am happy to respond, and I make no apologies. Mail order sales carry with them certain guarantees such as the goods will be delivered to the buyer. If the buyer doesn't get the goods, it is by definition the seller's responsibility to make the deal good. Seller can try to find the missing package, send another, or just refund the price. That is the code that the top mail order sellers use, folks like Amazon, Jos. A. Bank Clotiers, etc. In order for the buying public to participate, they have to know without question they will get their order. It has to be a no questions asked deal. The seller has to make good on it or risk losing business. In order for a buyer to make money, he has to sefl-insure his transactions, that is reserve enough cash flow to cover the inevitable glitches. He can pay for signature confirmation or shipping insurance if that is a better approach, but the transaction has to be insured somehow. If you don't like that, I certainly understand. It is not ideal, but it is reality. Like they say, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

I grew up in the retail business and I know this: you can strut around saying how you would behave, you wouldn't stand for this or that, but it all comes down to one thing. Never more true than in today's mail order marketplace: the customer is always right. If you ever forget that, your business is doomed. So say what your want about taking a hit on feedback because you did the right thing, but it is all for naught. Until the customer is happy, your job is not done. You have to keep on doing the right thing until the customer says it is right. Business 101!

Are you saying there was no tracking? That can be a problem...hard to prove it was shipped. But I thought you said there was tracking. Tracking shows if there was successful delivery or not. If tracking reflects there was delivery, then maybe the package was stolen off your porch? Do you live in a house or an apartment? Bad part of town? Delivery to a business? There can be bad people in the neighborhood that steal packages off people's porch. This isn't the seller's fault. To me, it is pretty much incumbent on the seller to request tracking. Other than that, I don't see how the seller is liable. So, we do disagree. I don't think what you did was fair to the seller. I won't have done that...if the seller had strong feedback and shipped the product in good faith. A...I wouldn't have left bad feedback because the seller did his job...and B...worse case I would have negotiated some sort of settlement.
I don't buy into the buyer is always right BS.

Business 102: collectively, the customers are always right, but individually they're often ****ing idiots.

Sorry, I found your request for more information. No, I am not saying it wasn't shipped. And yes, it was tracked. I haven't the slightest idea what happened to it. The PO does make mistakes. This was just 1st Class mail, not priority or other advanced service. Who knows? What I am saying is just as in my other reply, until I am satisfied, it is still the seller's responsibility. Period.

What really annoyed me was that the seller blew me off, told me to contact Pay Pal (not correct, it should have been ebay) and they would take care of me. Actually they have the same policy you advocate: if tracking says it was delivered, then that is the end of it. So I got the ebay runaround. Seller should have been involved in making me happy.

You likely think I am advocating for the buyer, but in reality I am trying to help the seller. Once the rules of doing this kind of business are understood, everyone will be happier.

BTW, despite the several voices speaking on this thread to the contrary, my idea of how mail order should be done is quite widespread. The biggest and best merchants essentially universally operate this way. Why would they do that?

Robert

Tracking & signature do you absolutely no good if the buyer simply says that the item is not as described and sends back a brick, or his old, broken item. Buyer gets the money back automatically from ebay/pp, you get stiffed and probably negative feedback.

No doubt, but it can't matter to the seller.

Robert

What I do is...I always ship Priority with delivery confirmation...or UPS Ground. To ship without tracking I believe is a poor choice by the seller.
But what I hear from you is...whether there was tracking or not...if the package doesn't end up in your hands, if it doesn't, it is the seller's fault.
Where we vary is...if there is tracking and proof of delivery, I believe the buyer has some responsibility for going to the mailbox in a timely manner.

Why not?

Sure, you are right. Happened to me with a perfectly good camera the buyer said he couldn't get to work. Not as bad as what you describe, but I assume he just changed his mind. It was fine when he sent it back, and the next buyer was thrilled with it, no problem. What could I do? Just follow the "rules" and suck it up. It cost me maybe $15 in shipping that I had included in the price, and a little inconvenience. But I got positive feedback all around. From either end of the transaction, I still say the buyer is always right. There just isn't any other way to do it.

Robert

This hasn't happened to me. Kind of a scary scenario.

The typical scam that's been tried on me is a buyer with a confirmed location in Europe says that he will be visiting the U.S. and would like to save on shipping by picking up the item there. They win the auction, give a U.S. address and ask to have it shipped there. Usually they just give the address, not the explanation and hope you'll just ship it there. When you discover the changed address they give you the story. The finale is you ship the goods, they receive them, the receipt is signed for & confirmed and then they get their money back because they say they never received it, you didn't ship to the confirmed address, someone else must have received the goods, claw back the cash. I've never fallen for it.

You can hold on to your simple view, and I'll hold on to a more nuanced one. If you think that every customer is always right, you haven't spent as much time in retail as you'd like us to believe.

I understand what you are saying even though I believe it is unfortunate. In fact, what you write is about the indignation over ebay retooling their market to pander to buyers and not sellers. This is planned and no accident. The customer is always right. But we know that sometimes the customer is a scam artist or dead wrong. Maybe each of know of a certain someone. That someone goes to Sears or Home Depot and uses a given power tool to do a job and return it. Or the guy that 'window shops' on Amazon...buys stuff, tries it as an experiment or for a project and then returns it. This has a cost to society and the companies that sell stuff. What do companies do? They pass this cost along to buyers in terms of elevated product prices to cover their losses. Fortunately the average consumer is honest. Also as discussed in this thread...it maybe hard to weed out the 'intention' of buyers.
I believe what you are stating is...this is the cost of doing business and should be rolled into the bottom line. You maybe right but still a sad commentary.