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Jamis Eclipse vs Breezer Venturi

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Jamis Eclipse vs Breezer Venturi

Old 03-21-13, 12:50 PM
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Jamis Eclipse vs Breezer Venturi

Hello, all; been trying to decide if I go with steel for my next steed, where to take it.

I've been considering between the Breezer Venturi, Jamis Eclipse or a custom Seven Resolute SLX. Granted, price is going to be a huge factor here. For the price of the Resolute SLX, I could get either the Venturi or the Eclipse and upgrade wheels and other parts. Gruppo I'm targeting would be Ultegra.

So the question I am primarily interested in is this: which frame is more aggressive/racey, the Eclipse or the Venturi? With the Resolute SLX of course I can have it tailored to what I'm looking for, which would be a more aggressive frame. I already have a Civia Bryant for touring/endurance riding, and am looking for a bike for fast group rides and the occasional short distance race (pedal/paddle/run etc.). Of greatest importance are light weight and efficiency, and of lesser importance comfort. Also, I am, for my height, shorter of leg and longer of torso.

Anyone have any thoughts here? Any other steel framed race/performance bikes I ought to consider outside of these three?

-Ed
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Old 03-21-13, 01:20 PM
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Wow, I can only comment on the Breezer. Amazing bike, came close to buying one. But like you mentioned the geometry is very racy. JensonUSA had them on sale a while back for a steal of a price. Take a peek. Gorgeous bike.
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Old 03-21-13, 01:23 PM
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Wow, I can only comment on the Breezer. Amazing bike, came close to buying one. But like you mentioned the geometry is very racy. JensonUSA had them on sale a while back for a steal of a price. Take a peek. Gorgeous bike.

Yup still available. $1899.00 https://m.jensonusa.com/Breezer-Ventu...l-Road-Bike-12
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Old 03-22-13, 03:33 AM
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I looked at the Jamis and went with the Breezer myself. I wanted something sporty and crisp, and the numbers on the Breezer suggested to me it was the one; wheelbase a little shorter, HT a bit steeper, less fork offset, a lower BB. The frame is low and long, so that may suit you as well.

I'm 6', but shortish torsoed, so I went with the M/L, which has a 54/570 ST/TT combo. With a 110 stem, it fits me perfectly.

Ridewise, it's pretty awesome. It's very stable, but responds to rider input like a cat. It has a feel of liveliness, which is just what I wanted. Something I didn't want or anticipate was wheel/toe overlap, which is just a bit with my size 46.5 Bonts. It's totally manageable and only an issue at very low speeds, but still, it's there. All that shortness and steepness makes it feel like a scalpel, but also makes it a little twitchy out of the saddle; nothing crazy, but coming off a more relaxed bike, it's something I noticed and which caused me to think more about my technique, which is probably a good thing.

Another good thing is that the low ST allows for good seatpost extension, which in turn allows the post to 'work' damping vibrations and road shock. The Venturi with Ksyrium Equipe Ss and FSA SL-K carbon post is smoother than my 853 Lemond with Use Alien Ti post and 3x laced Velocity Aerohead rims. I think thats partly due to having more exposed seatpost, because I've always noticed similar comfort levels from MTBs with similar post lengths and Ti posts.

My feeling is that the Venturi is probably an awesome crit bike-- it turns at the hips-- and great for fast training rides. It's probably less suitable for all day rides, although it is comfy. I've only had it a month or so, and it has been snowy and cold, so I've only done short rides. We'll see'how versatile it is when I start putting miles on it, but it's such a smooth, solid platorm-- I'm 230lbs-- that I won't be surprised if it proves to be a terrific all 'rounder.

The paint on these '12 Venturis is gorgeous, too. I did a custom build on a frame with Campy because I just find the new Ultegra stuff hideous. I wish I didn't though, because I could have saved a boatload of cash off a deal like the Jenson one! With the Athena 11spd carbon, the Venturi built up to 18.5lbs, which aint bad.

My only disappointment thus far has been a failed waterbottle braze-on. It lifted right out as I put my waterbottle in for my first ride! It seems to have been held in only by paint. My LBS put a new riv nut in no problem, but while I've heard of this happening on other bikes, it's not the level of quality control I was expecting from a bike produced in a small run of 150 units (the '12 model).

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Old 03-28-13, 08:52 AM
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Thanks very much for your replies so far, bmxovich and chaadster!

I'm leaning heavily towards the Venturi myself now, since the LBS I am working with can get Breezer, but cannot get Jamis. I am considering a custom build off a bare frame. Here's the build-out I have in mind so far:
Apex brakes front & rear (white)
Force brifters (white hoods)
Rival compact double crankset w/Stages Power Meter
Force FD
Force RD
Ultegra 12-25 cassette
KMC X10SL-DLC chain (black)
ISM Adamo Prologue saddle (white)
Lizard Skin 3.2mm DP bar tape (white)
white headset, white stem, white handle-bar, white seatpost

Wheels:
blue hubs
silver or white spokes
Velocity A23 rims (regular front, off-center rear, both white with machines side walls)

With that said, does anyone know if there's any functional or mechanical difference between the Apex brakes and the Rival or Force brakes? I figured the only difference is material/weight, and they would provide the same performance, but correct me if I'm wrong there. I picked an Ultegra cassette because they appear to be lighter, cheaper and quieter than the 1070 from SRAM. I also have little knowledge of what are considered good stems, handle bars or seatposts that happen to come in white, or wheel hubs that happen to come in blue, if anyone has recommendations, I'm all ears (eyes?).

Any other advice?

-Ed
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Old 03-28-13, 12:45 PM
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I think the Ritchey posts and stems (especially the stems) are hard to beat in white when it comes to price/weight ratio. Also, the graphics are largely subdued, which I think will unify the look. I initially had an FSA white alu post on this-- I forget the model-- but while the mast was white, the head was black, which looked janky to me. It's the same head on the SLK carbon post I have now, but the black UD carbon looks a lot better with it.

Blue road hubs seem to have gone out of favor in recent years; aside from the pricey Chris Kings, nothing comes immediately to mind. Are you looking at the '13 Venturi with it's lighter, frostier blue, or the old '12 frame? I think the '13 hue of blue is less tolerant of shade differences-- aesthetically speaking-- than the '12, so if you can't find a matching blue, black is always in fashion. The DT 350 hubs are black with bold white graphics, which would look cool, or the higher end DT 240s in white with bold black graphics would be sweet, too, and totally harmonious with Velocity rims in white.

I'm running the FSA Wing Pro Compact aluminum handlebar in white, but you'll find lots of choices for that part.

I don't know anything about SRAM stuff, but being able to use the Stages is a good reason to go for the Rival crank. I was a little bummed to learn that the Stages didn't work on carbon arms.

Have fun, and keep us apprised of the build!
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Old 04-10-13, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
I think the Ritchey posts and stems (especially the stems) are hard to beat in white when it comes to price/weight ratio. Also, the graphics are largely subdued, which I think will unify the look. I initially had an FSA white alu post on this-- I forget the model-- but while the mast was white, the head was black, which looked janky to me. It's the same head on the SLK carbon post I have now, but the black UD carbon looks a lot better with it.

Blue road hubs seem to have gone out of favor in recent years; aside from the pricey Chris Kings, nothing comes immediately to mind. Are you looking at the '13 Venturi with it's lighter, frostier blue, or the old '12 frame? I think the '13 hue of blue is less tolerant of shade differences-- aesthetically speaking-- than the '12, so if you can't find a matching blue, black is always in fashion. The DT 350 hubs are black with bold white graphics, which would look cool, or the higher end DT 240s in white with bold black graphics would be sweet, too, and totally harmonious with Velocity rims in white.

I'm running the FSA Wing Pro Compact aluminum handlebar in white, but you'll find lots of choices for that part.

I don't know anything about SRAM stuff, but being able to use the Stages is a good reason to go for the Rival crank. I was a little bummed to learn that the Stages didn't work on carbon arms.

Have fun, and keep us apprised of the build!
Thanks again, Chaad; I'm being professionally fitted in the studio associated with my local(ish) Breezer/Fuji dealer this Saturday. I can't put in words how excited I am!!! I am wondering if perhaps they will be able to source me the actual white seatpost and stem that come on the complete Breezer build. If not, then I will see what they recommend that comes in white for those parts.

The model year that I would be getting, if indeed I went with the Venturi, would be a 2013 frameset. I do see what you mean by the change of shade in blue, so I may end up avoiding failed attempts at matching blue to blue, and just going white where possible. Given that, and also after some further research into gruppo componentry, I've updated the parts list for the build:

Frameset: Breezer Venturi
Custom Gruppo:
TRP R950 SL brakes front & rear (white)
Force brifters (white hoods)
Rival compact double crankset
Force FD
Force RD
Yokozuna Reaction cable set (white)
Ultegra 11-28 cassette
KMC X10SL-DLC chain (black)
ISM Adamo Prologue or Selle SMP saddle (white)
Lizard Skin 3.2mm DP bar tape (white)
Some sort of: white stem, white handle-bar, white seatpost (OEM Oval bits if possible)

Wheels:
white hubs
silver or white spokes
Velocity A23 rims (regular front, off-center rear, both white with machined side walls)


All of this hinges on the findings when the fitting is complete. If they recommend an entirely different bike/frame based on my size/shape that would be a better fit or be a better solution for my objectives (my primary focus for this bike is climbing efficiency, turning/handling ability [pedal through turns and quick response] and low weight), then I guess that throws all of this out the window.

Anyone have experience with TRP brakes, good or bad? I wanted something in white that performs better than SRAM Apex. Unfortunately, the Rival, Force and Red brakes don't come in white.

-Ed
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Old 04-10-13, 07:05 PM
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If I spent 1k on a frameset and a braze on came out, I would JIHAD against the company that built it.
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Old 04-10-13, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Dead Roman
If I spent 1k on a frameset and a braze on came out, I would JIHAD against the company that built it.
Please expand on this.

-Ed
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Old 04-10-13, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by EddNog
Anyone have experience with TRP brakes, good or bad? I wanted something in white that performs better than SRAM Apex. Unfortunately, the Rival, Force and Red brakes don't come in white.

-Ed
I have TRP CX8.4 Titanium brakes on my Jamis Aurora. They are simply awesome. I went from Textro Cantilever brakes to the CX8.4s and now I can actually stop. They are so good that when I rode my Roubaix SL2 on Monday, I thought the brakes were not as good as the CX8.4s.
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Old 04-12-13, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by fstshrk
I have TRP CX8.4 Titanium brakes on my Jamis Aurora. They are simply awesome. I went from Textro Cantilever brakes to the CX8.4s and now I can actually stop. They are so good that when I rode my Roubaix SL2 on Monday, I thought the brakes were not as good as the CX8.4s.
I may be taking this a little bit farther than the effort is worth, but I decided to pull down the weight and MSRP price data for two different build sets just to see where I get the most bang for the buck in terms of weight reduction, as well as to ascertain just where I could get the most gains along those lines and it appears quite obviously that the wheels are the number one place to save the most grams for the least increase in cost. Here's the full table:



-Ed
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Old 04-12-13, 05:38 PM
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you said a water bottle braze on failed. Its an expensive frame, theres no excuse for a water bottle braze on to fail. If they cant get that right, imagine what else they screwed up.
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Old 04-12-13, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dead Roman
you said a water bottle braze on failed. Its an expensive frame, theres no excuse for a water bottle braze on to fail. If they cant get that right, imagine what else they screwed up.
Ah yes, my bad. Totally forgot he mentioned that! Thanks for the reminder.

-Ed
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Old 04-15-13, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
I think the Ritchey posts and stems (especially the stems) are hard to beat in white when it comes to price/weight ratio. Also, the graphics are largely subdued, which I think will unify the look. I initially had an FSA white alu post on this-- I forget the model-- but while the mast was white, the head was black, which looked janky to me. It's the same head on the SLK carbon post I have now, but the black UD carbon looks a lot better with it.

Blue road hubs seem to have gone out of favor in recent years; aside from the pricey Chris Kings, nothing comes immediately to mind. Are you looking at the '13 Venturi with it's lighter, frostier blue, or the old '12 frame? I think the '13 hue of blue is less tolerant of shade differences-- aesthetically speaking-- than the '12, so if you can't find a matching blue, black is always in fashion. The DT 350 hubs are black with bold white graphics, which would look cool, or the higher end DT 240s in white with bold black graphics would be sweet, too, and totally harmonious with Velocity rims in white.

I'm running the FSA Wing Pro Compact aluminum handlebar in white, but you'll find lots of choices for that part.

I don't know anything about SRAM stuff, but being able to use the Stages is a good reason to go for the Rival crank. I was a little bummed to learn that the Stages didn't work on carbon arms.

Have fun, and keep us apprised of the build!
Alrighty, completed a professional fitting session on Saturday and fate would have it that the Breezer Venturi is a perfect fit for me! The build has been ordered and I will be picking it up in two weeks. He was able to locate a 2012 frame leftover stock in my size to save me a couple hundred dollars:

2012 Breezer Venturi frameset
2013 SRAM Force groupset, white Apex brakes
Bontrager Race Lite TLR wheel set
Bontrager R3 TLR tubeless tires, Bontrager TLR sealant
Yokozuna Reaction cable set, white
OEM Oval seatpost and stem (white) and a carbon handlebar (not sure which one yet)

Can't wait!!!

-Ed
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Old 04-16-13, 03:41 AM
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Ed,

You're gonna love it! The 35th anniversary paint scheme on the '12 is a real head-turner in it's deep, vibrant indigo, and is truly classy. I've gotten compliments almost every time I've taken it out. In a market flush with super sports styling and 'bold, edgy graphics', the classic styling of the '12 stands out.

Yours should look really sharp with the white brakes, and the Oval stem is the best fit, in my opinion, because of the minimal and subtle light grey graphics that let the white color take center stage and flow seamlessly through the white spacers into the white of the frame.

Like I said before, over the road, the bike rides great; spry, responsive, and fast, yet stable and comfy. I was riding some mountains in Italy last week on a rented road bike, and while it was decent, I really wished for the Breezer to carve the downhill switchbacks! That rental was a little scary in that situation because it needed to be steered from the front, and was not so responsive at the hips.

Anyway, congrats on the selection; it just blows away the Jamis, doesn't it?! Looking forward to pics soon!
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Old 04-16-13, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Ed,

You're gonna love it! The 35th anniversary paint scheme on the '12 is a real head-turner in it's deep, vibrant indigo, and is truly classy. I've gotten compliments almost every time I've taken it out. In a market flush with super sports styling and 'bold, edgy graphics', the classic styling of the '12 stands out.

Yours should look really sharp with the white brakes, and the Oval stem is the best fit, in my opinion, because of the minimal and subtle light grey graphics that let the white color take center stage and flow seamlessly through the white spacers into the white of the frame.

Like I said before, over the road, the bike rides great; spry, responsive, and fast, yet stable and comfy. I was riding some mountains in Italy last week on a rented road bike, and while it was decent, I really wished for the Breezer to carve the downhill switchbacks! That rental was a little scary in that situation because it needed to be steered from the front, and was not so responsive at the hips.

Anyway, congrats on the selection; it just blows away the Jamis, doesn't it?! Looking forward to pics soon!
Thanks, Chaad! Can't put in words how excited I am. Two weeks is going to feel like a REALLY long time!

Just wondering, is the 2012 paint scheme the one with thin gold trim accents?

-Ed
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Old 04-16-13, 05:02 AM
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Ed,

That is an amazing bike you got being built up. Please do not forget to give us an update on how she rides and your overall impressions!

Congrats, and I know how the wait feels... My bike is sitting at the LBS being built up piece by piece, and its killing me...
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Old 04-16-13, 06:42 AM
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Ed,

Yes, all of the make and model designations on the '12-- the 1st model year since the first gen bikes went out of production in the early '90s-- are outlined in gold, including the 'B' logo darts on the fork legs and seat tube.

I was playing with the idea of accenting those gold markings with gold bar tape, but I couldn't find any of the shiny Cinelli Treasure tape, and I really wanted to try the Lizard Skins anyway, so I went blue. I did buy some gold Deda, but it's not really polished gold looking, more of a brushed gold color, which I think would work ok, but the LizardSkin DSP is sweet, so I'm holding with that for now.

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Old 04-16-13, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Ed,

Yes, all of the make and model designations on the '12-- the 1st model year since the first gen bikes went out of production in the early '90s-- are outlined in gold, including the 'B' logo darts on the fork legs and seat tube.

I was playing with the idea of accenting those gold markings with gold bar tape, but I couldn't find any of the shiny Cinelli Treasure tape, and I really wanted to try the Lizard Skins anyway, so I went blue. I did buy some gold Deda, but it's not really polished gold looking, more of a brushed gold color, which I think would work ok, but the LizardSkin DSP is sweet, so I'm holding with that for now.
Yes, I have the 3.2mm LizardSkin DSP on my Civia Bryant plus gel inserts and that thing is unbelievably comfortable. Even my hybrid/cross bike, which is aluminum frame with chro-mo fork and 2.5mm LizardSkin DSP is reasonably plush in the majority of situations. I'm a huge fan of the stuff!

On the gold, I was actually considering a gold chain would match the gold accents nicely, something like a KMC X10SL-Ti, but my dealer told me to stick with the SRAM cartridge and the SRAM chain as supposedly they work better as a system than substituting in the Ultegra cassette and/or KMC X10SL chain. I figure I'll see how I like it as-is first, and if I want to later consider swapping cassette and/or chain if I desire more smoothness than, "stock."

-Ed
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Old 04-28-13, 12:21 PM
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It's Done! It's Here!!!

2012 Breezer Venturi hydroformed steel road race frame, extra-small (I'm 5'5" with short inseam/long torso)
2013 SRAM Force (ZeroLoss front AND rear), white hoods, white Apex brakes
Yokozuna Reaction cable set in white
Bontrager Race Lite TLR wheels
Bontrager R3 TLR tires (running tubeless)
Ritchey carbon drop bars
ISM Adamo Prologue saddle in white
OEM Oval 700 alloy seatpost and stem



The bidon cage is temporary; will be a few weeks before I finally receive the pair of Bontrager Race X Lite cages in blue that I ordered to come in.

-Ed

Last edited by EddNog; 04-29-13 at 05:19 PM.
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