Truth about clipless pedals.
07-05-13 | 08:08 AM
#151
Prefers Cicero
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From: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
No, the studies you cited show you can add power on the upstroke, but it is inefficient to do so.
07-05-13 | 08:13 AM
#152
Senior Member
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From: Snow Hill NC
Bikes: Trek Madone 2.1
I did 8 miles yesterday with regular shoes... I can say that the ride was a little harder, well not harder just not as positive...the day before i used the clipless and it was more positive....the stroke was easier to deliver...That is my noob opinion and i am glad i got them...I am just building my endurance now...started at 2 miles and now after 3 weeks doing 8 miles....i will get there...i am lovin it...
07-05-13 | 08:14 AM
#153
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It was "obvious" that heavy objects fall faster than light ones. Until Galileo actually bothered to test it. 
The biomechanics are certainly different. If you're curious: In terms of forces making it to the pedals, this is what's going on when you are standing.
You can't tell that this is going on, based on subjective measures. Human beings are not born with pedal-based power meters implanted in their feet.
"Targeted," no. "Relevant," yes. Several respondents are repeating the flawed, subjective, unproven idea that "you add power to the drivetrain on the upstroke!", and it has become necessary to cite the studies in what appears to be a vain attempt to correct their error.
In addition, the point is that on the upstroke, all you're really doing is lifting your leg. You might do this in a slightly more effective manner with foot retention, because you will have better contact and control. But the action, and thus the muscles used, are essentially the same.
Plus, at no point in this thread have I advocated platforms, especially for pros. As I've said nearly a dozen times already, all I'm saying is that cyclists do not apply power to the drivetrain on the upstroke, even with foot retention.
The biomechanics are certainly different. If you're curious: In terms of forces making it to the pedals, this is what's going on when you are standing.
You can't tell that this is going on, based on subjective measures. Human beings are not born with pedal-based power meters implanted in their feet.
"Targeted," no. "Relevant," yes. Several respondents are repeating the flawed, subjective, unproven idea that "you add power to the drivetrain on the upstroke!", and it has become necessary to cite the studies in what appears to be a vain attempt to correct their error.
In addition, the point is that on the upstroke, all you're really doing is lifting your leg. You might do this in a slightly more effective manner with foot retention, because you will have better contact and control. But the action, and thus the muscles used, are essentially the same.
Plus, at no point in this thread have I advocated platforms, especially for pros. As I've said nearly a dozen times already, all I'm saying is that cyclists do not apply power to the drivetrain on the upstroke, even with foot retention.
07-05-13 | 08:18 AM
#154
Senior Member
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From: Someplace trying to figure it out
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Older guys like me rode/raced with toe clips with cleats nailed into the sole of the bike shoe. If you were racing and crashed, you did not separate from that bike. Look at some old cycling films of crashes and you will see guys laying inthe road waiting for someone to release their feet from the pedals because on the ground they could not reach.
So, to summarize, it's wasted energy riding any pedal system that attaches you to the pedals.
Got it.
I rode with an acquaintence who was on platforms. We were climbing a hill, he stood up, his foot slipped off the pedal driving his toes into the pavement, the crank came up and caught him on the back of the leg and snapped his ankle. I was glad I had a cell phone with me.
07-05-13 | 08:24 AM
#155
Descends like a rock
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Bikes: Scott Foil, Surly Pacer
Oh, also this...
"Although our results suggest that actively pulling on the pedal reduces gross efficiency during steady-state cycling, there may be situations during which an active pull is beneficial in terms of adding power to the crank.....A limitation of our study...is that it does not rule out the possibility that there may be a more efficient
pedaling style if participants are given enough time to adapt to it. Longitudinal studies are needed to explore this possibility."
pedaling style if participants are given enough time to adapt to it. Longitudinal studies are needed to explore this possibility."
07-05-13 | 08:28 AM
#156
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From: Someplace trying to figure it out
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
That only works if you have the time to "ride lots". If you are racing for an hour once a week, it does not make much sense.
07-07-13 | 04:41 AM
#159
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07-07-13 | 05:25 AM
#160
Still can't climb
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Limey in Taiwan
I have ridden the same climbing route with platform and clipless on the same bike. clipless wins hands down. no contest.
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coasting, few quotes are worthy of him, and of those, even fewer printable in a family forum......quote 3alarmer
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07-07-13 | 05:37 AM
#161
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Perhaps ot is my bad form or whatever but this is also the case with me. I climb much better locked in. I am skeptic and scared by nature...if riding clipped in didn't make me feel more connected to the bike and if I had seen performance increase as a result from moving from flats...I sure as heck wouldn't do it but clipless can be seriously dangerous.
07-07-13 | 07:46 AM
#163
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From: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
07-07-13 | 08:12 AM
#164
Mr. Dopolina
Joined: May 2007
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From: Taiwan
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
I thought about this thread today on my ride. I thought about the study that has been quoted above. I thought about the obvious flaws to the protocols as I pulled up on my pedals cresting a hill so I could quickly get back on top of the gear and accelerate over the top of the climb.
Impossible on platforms.
I thought about this thread as I jumped to get some momentum going into a series of poppers. I thought about how much I could feel myself pulling UP.
Impossible with platform pedals.
I think I will go back and read the thread for a good laugh.
Impossible on platforms.
I thought about this thread as I jumped to get some momentum going into a series of poppers. I thought about how much I could feel myself pulling UP.
Impossible with platform pedals.
I think I will go back and read the thread for a good laugh.
07-07-13 | 08:15 AM
#165
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From: TC, MN
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
I thought about this thread today on my ride. I thought about the study that has been quoted above. I thought about the obvious flaws to the protocols as I pulled up on my pedals cresting a hill so I could quickly get back on top of the gear and accelerate over the top of the climb.
Impossible on platforms.
I thought about this thread as I jumped to get some momentum going into a series of poppers. I thought about how much I could feel myself pulling UP.
Impossible with platform pedals.
I think I will go back and read the thread for a good laugh.
Impossible on platforms.
I thought about this thread as I jumped to get some momentum going into a series of poppers. I thought about how much I could feel myself pulling UP.
Impossible with platform pedals.
I think I will go back and read the thread for a good laugh.
07-07-13 | 08:31 AM
#166
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07-07-13 | 08:38 AM
#167
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From: Madison, WI
They're safer. There's a reason mountain bikers prefer clipless to platforms. Slipping of the pedals at the wrong moment is far more dangerous than any imagined danger of clipless.
07-07-13 | 10:45 AM
#168
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From: TC, MN
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
07-07-13 | 01:24 PM
#169
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From: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
You're not really locked to the pedals, you just twist your ankle and you pop out.
07-07-13 | 04:37 PM
#170
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07-07-13 | 06:44 PM
#172
or tarckeemoon, depending
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: the pesto of cities
Bikes: Davidson Impulse, Merckx Titanium AX, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road, Cross Check custom build, On-One Il Pomino, Shawver Cycles cross, Zion 737, Mercian Vincitore, Brompton S1L, Charge Juicer
I've put quite a few miles on my Brompton (with platforms) since getting it and I'm planning to keep it that way. Does fine on my 28 mile one way commute. There's something to be said for infinite float and infinite virtual "cleat" position.
Also, many MTBer these days are going back to platforms.
Also, many MTBer these days are going back to platforms.
07-07-13 | 06:58 PM
#174
Senior Member
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I've put quite a few miles on my Brompton (with platforms) since getting it and I'm planning to keep it that way. Does fine on my 28 mile one way commute. There's something to be said for infinite float and infinite virtual "cleat" position.
Also, many MTBer these days are going back to platforms.
Also, many MTBer these days are going back to platforms.
07-07-13 | 07:04 PM
#175
Senior Member
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From: TC, MN
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo