Training for climbing question
09-09-13, 11:17 AM
#26
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I recently climbed Mount Ventoux which for me was a high tempo/SST power climb. To train, I rode a lot of tempo power and the longer the better. Do some one hour or more tempo rides on any terrain you have and bias the cadence down to the projected climbing cadence for part of the ride. However, NO REST on the tempo rides and do not let the power go below tempo. If you can hold 10 to 15 watts below FTP even better. Just watch that you do not get too much fatigue.
09-09-13, 11:28 AM
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Is this event you're preparing for a race or a ride? If it's a ride, just ride a bit slower. Also, is it short and hilly or is it a longer ride that just happens to have 3 climbs? You have both the legs and the gearing for this type of climbing and it won't be a big deal unless you go too hard on the first one and have nothing left for later.
Your legs will absolutely not burn up quicker if you drop your cadence, it will only get a little easier to pedal. The reason some people with low cadences burn up their legs is more because they're pushing too hard in too high a gear.
If you really want to do the ride the most efficient way possible, you need to do the actual ride because there will be specific conditions that you can take advantage of and you can figure out how to plan your effort. But just eyeballing the info you've provided, take it easy on the first climb and ramp up your effort as you go.
Your legs will absolutely not burn up quicker if you drop your cadence, it will only get a little easier to pedal. The reason some people with low cadences burn up their legs is more because they're pushing too hard in too high a gear.
If you really want to do the ride the most efficient way possible, you need to do the actual ride because there will be specific conditions that you can take advantage of and you can figure out how to plan your effort. But just eyeballing the info you've provided, take it easy on the first climb and ramp up your effort as you go.
09-09-13, 11:30 AM
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I recently climbed Mount Ventoux which for me was a high tempo/SST power climb. To train, I rode a lot of tempo power and the longer the better. Do some one hour or more tempo rides on any terrain you have and bias the cadence down to the projected climbing cadence for part of the ride. However, NO REST on the tempo rides and do not let the power go below tempo. If you can hold 10 to 15 watts below FTP even better. Just watch that you do not get too much fatigue.
09-09-13, 03:12 PM
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I've no idea how you work that out. No doubt your going up hills too slow
and you'd feel even better if you went up them faster in the same gear ....
rgds, sreten.
Optimum cadence varies with pedal torque, it is lower climbing
and higher going downhill compared to pedaling on the flat.
So pedaling a higher gear than usual on the flat is good practise for hills.
And pedaling a lower than usual on the flat good practise for descending.
Last edited by sreten; 09-09-13 at 03:24 PM.
09-09-13, 03:44 PM
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If I had another gear to work with, it would be a different story. If I wanted to slow down my cadence I would also shift to an easier gear.
09-09-13, 04:19 PM
#31
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Well, if I am putting in something close to a maximum effort and I'm already in my easiest gear, slowing down my cadence will make me feel overgeared. It would be more of a struggle to keep the gear moving than to just go back to pushing hard at a normal cadence.
If I had another gear to work with, it would be a different story. If I wanted to slow down my cadence I would also shift to an easier gear.
If I had another gear to work with, it would be a different story. If I wanted to slow down my cadence I would also shift to an easier gear.
09-09-13, 09:06 PM
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I can do it on a 30x25 or a 34x29, but it's tough for an old, fat fred.
On long climbs of easier grade, say 6 or 7%, I don't go into my lowest gear unless I am toast. On longish hilly rides with no steep grades I can complete the ride with a 39x25.
09-09-13, 09:35 PM
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My cassette is a 12-30 so it looks like our numbers just don't match. I'm pulling my data right off an interval from the powertap software.
These are just steeper climbs than I'm accustomed to. If I can get my cadence to a little over 80 on a less step climb, I can go quite a while also.
I'll work hard for a month at climbs and then assess any progress. At that point I'll still have 4 weeks to decide on whether or not to get MB gearing. I guess I could always just stop on the climbs to catch my breath but I really, really don't want to take that approach.
These are just steeper climbs than I'm accustomed to. If I can get my cadence to a little over 80 on a less step climb, I can go quite a while also.
I'll work hard for a month at climbs and then assess any progress. At that point I'll still have 4 weeks to decide on whether or not to get MB gearing. I guess I could always just stop on the climbs to catch my breath but I really, really don't want to take that approach.
I have a 34-29 low gear, like your 34-30. Slow your cadence down to whatever gets you up the hill. On really steep hills (18%), I'll be at 3.0 mph, 30-33 rpm, standing and balancing the bike.
For instance, I test rode a similar climb to your big climb, Cullowhee Mountain Road, which was 1520 feet in 3.7 miles. This is an average 8% grade--your climb is about 8.5% average.
See my ridewithgps recording.
Average speed: 4.7 mph, average cadence: 47 rpm. My heart rate mostly stayed below 140, which is below my approximately 140-145 range for long distance sustained riding. I was probably alternating between standing and sitting. This was a cold start, too; I should have warmed up for 20-30 minutes first.
I can mostly stay seated on an 8% grade with my very low 34-29 gear. I'm not going fast, but I'm also not pressing too hard on the pedals, even at 45-50 rpm.
~~~~~~~~~~
The Cullowhee Mountain Road climb is part of the Tour de Cashiers 62 mile route. I,too, was worried about this big climb in the middle of a ride with lots of elevation gains. I bailed on the ride this year, since it was pouring rain most of the day, and just tested the hill climb in between rain showers. It's doable, so I'll be riding next year if the weather is better.
Last edited by rm -rf; 09-09-13 at 10:07 PM.
09-10-13, 12:39 AM
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I'd say climbing ability/fitness/strength/form/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is like money and the cassette is like a lifestyle. A lot of people are living beyond their means. Personally, I know I'm poor, so I choose my cassette accordingly.
09-10-13, 03:34 PM
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Well, if I am putting in something close to a maximum effort and I'm already in my easiest gear, slowing down my cadence will make me feel overgeared. It would be more of a struggle to keep the gear moving than to just go back to pushing hard at a normal cadence.
If I had another gear to work with, it would be a different story. If I wanted to slow down my cadence I would also shift to an easier gear.
If I had another gear to work with, it would be a different story. If I wanted to slow down my cadence I would also shift to an easier gear.
If your lowest gear is too high so your struggling to hit a decent cadence I agree slowing the cadence won't help at all.
It does on a fixie standing going up hills, but in the saddle there is a minimum cadence, say about 50 rpm below which
it all starts going wrong. If the OP can go up a long hill at 75 rpm in bottom, doing it at 60 rpm is simply easier.
Most people could drop from 75 rpm to 60 rpm, go up a gear and maintain intensity / power output. However if you don't
go up a gear, you are simply going slower and it is easier. Why you think a lower cadence requires an easier gear seems
to me your associating your normal cadences with normal gears, and so trying as hard as possible you associate a lower
cadence with a lower gear going up a steeper hill.
But the OP just wants to get up a hill easier. That is not complicated. Don't try as hard. If he did it at 75 rpm
in bottom gear then the same gear at 60 rpm will be easier, as will a lower gear (he doesn't have) at 75 rpm.
It makes no sense to imply that a lower gear is needed to pedal at 60 rpm for the same hill.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited by sreten; 09-10-13 at 03:43 PM.
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