SkippyMcJimmy

I understand many keep a pair of "Race" wheels as well as "Training" wheels and swap them appropriately, so my question is:

What are the reasons behind having two sets of wheels, and is this still relevant due to the quality of newly produced wheels?

Brian Ratliff

Racing wheels are light, quick, aerodynamic.

Training wheels are cheap and durable.

It's a difference in expectations. Training wheel quality is measured in miles. Racing wheel quality is measured in weight and coefficient of drag. And after all that, besides the cost difference, if you race, you will want a minimum of two wheelsets: one to put on your bike, the other to put in the wheel car or wheel pit during a race. The training wheels typically act as backup race wheels.

coachboyd

Traditionally, race wheels are lighter, more aero, and will also have better tires on them. For instance with myself I will only race on tubular tires because they ride so much nicer, but I don't want to have a flat on a tubular tire while I'm out training a couple hours from home.

With clincher technologies getting better and better a lot of people will like to train and race on the same wheels, although true race tires will wear out a lot quicker due to softer and better handling rubber materials. Some people will swap out tires for a race, but a lot of people prefer to have a set of wheels to train on and a set to race on. The training set is usually a very durable alloy and then people will "save" the carbon set for race day.

cycledogg

In layman's terms, race wheels are expensive due to content. You want them to last you for while so you use a "training" set to beat up. Save your race set for the best effect of riding and performance. As stated above, enter your training set on the wheel truck/pit area.
Cheers

jmX

It'd be no problem to get 10,000 miles on a set of Zipps between rebuilds these days, so there's little harm in just training and racing on the same wheelset if you don't mind always using good rubber. Even then, the GP4000S is so good for racing AND training, even that is less of an issue now.

If you like racing on tubulars, it'd probably be wise to train on a clincher wheelset.

robbyville

From a non racer recreational rider stand point I'll also add to your question "What are the reasons behind having two sets of wheels"; I never thought that I'd need or want two sets of wheels, I have a nice carbon set for pretty much all my riding because I do believe that in this day and age you can easily have durability, light weight, cool looks, great performance, etc.

Then I started to train for some charity rides that threw some off pavement and other thoughts into the mix so I started to look into enhanced comfort, winter riding, and flat tire probability. Purchased a nice set of alloy wheels and set up tubeless. Now I have two sets of wheels and I move them around a fair bit depending on what conditions I plan to ride in and have never been happier.

mike12

For those of you with two sets of wheels, how much faster are you on the race wheels? Say riding an hour on relatively flat terrain how much time do you save.

Blue Belly

Race wheels are generally ultra light. Anything with material cut off of it will be generally less durable. That coupled with cutting edge materials & technology make them quite a bit more expensive. Modern wheelsets are where technology a made the best improvement on bicycles. Ride a set of Boras compared to a set of equally high end wheels from the 80's & you quickly notice the easy of acceleration, the smoothness in ride quality & the effort difference to keep them rolling on a long flat. I pick boras as an example only. But, back to the point. Race wheels expensive & fast. Training wheels durable, heavy & still only as fast as you.

Brian Ratliff

Depends on the course and the race. A good wheelset might weight a pound less than a training set, which will matter if it is hilly or if you are accelerating a lot (as in a crit). A good wheelset might be quite a bit more aerodynamic and might save you 5 or 10 watts at 25mph. Races are won by all sorts of time ranges, from minutes (hill finish), seconds (time trials), to milliseconds (sprints). Whether it is cost effective to have a fancy wheelset is totally up to you, your goals, and your resources.

All that said, having a second set of wheels, even if they don't fall in the "bling" category, the redundancy of a second wheelset and reliability of relatively unworn tires is worth a lot. If you don't have money to afford a really good set of wheels, just getting a duplicate of the wheelset you already have and just putting new tubes, new tires, and new cassette goes a long way towards ensuring you have a good race. Even if you are just a rec rider, having a second wheelset you use only on group ride days might be worth it to ensure your equipment problems don't hold the group back.

Roobay_today

My dad took my training wheels off when I was four. I don't have much use for them.

UmneyDurak

Took that long ha?

hhnngg1

Big Crash with Zipp wheels = $2000 gone.
Big crash with training wheels = $400 gone.

Also, can be a royal pain to be using valve extenders day in day out on 80mm wheels.

jmX

This is true, except:
1) You're most likely going to crash in a race, not a training ride. In 12,000mi I've never even seen a dude crash, except in races
and
2) proper valve extenders work exactly like a regular valve, threads and all. No more of a hassle than normal.

carpediemracing 

Although time trials have a place in racing, most racers do mass start races. In those weight and aero are most beneficial. The difference might be, for me, 10% difference in average power during a race. Since I'm not strong I need to hide from the wind and keep my efforts to a minimum. With my heavier aero clinchers I never finished a Tues Night race. At the same races, against basically the same guys, I was sprinting for the win on my lighter aero tubulars (one clip here, another here, among others). 10% effort in many of my races is the difference between not finishing and finishing, and in more marginal cases, the difference between only being able to finish and contesting the sprint at the end.

Also the aero tubulars are more aero than the clinchers, even though my rear clincher is 3 cm taller (9 cm vs 6 cm). This is because the tubulars I have are wider and have better aerodynamics. Although you can buy similar clinchers now back then it was only available in a tubular wheelset.

Finally a tubular tire, even if flat, offers some rideability. You have a very good chance of staying upright if you flat a front tubular while diving into a corner at 30 mph. There's no way to stay upright with a similar failure if it was a clincher. I've flatted a front tubular (when I was training on them), rode a mile or three, saw two guys doing a paceline on a major road crossing my path, turned onto the (slightly descending but still rolling) road, chased them for a couple miles at speeds between 25 and 35+ mph, and caught them, all on an absolutely flat front tire. I politely declined to pull through and explained that although I was okay crashing myself due to my flat front I wasn't okay taking out two guys who were towing me. We all slowed down because the two guys wanted to see the flat and asked me where I flatted, etc.

My red bike when it was orange. Training wheels on it. Aero training wheels to the right (one is sort of in the background, the other one is the wheel most to the right). Aero race wheels on the left.

carpediemracing 

Training ride, albeit a fast one. Someone just posted this recently (not me):

Less intense training ride.

Granted, I've seen a lot of crashes in races. However I've seen a lot of crashes on training rides as well. My last crash was on a training ride. In my first 5 years of racing I crashed only in training.

On valve extenders... if something has to go it might be that. I've chosen, for the last few times I rode outside, not to use the aero clinchers simply because it would be one more thing I had to get before I headed out. The race wheels I'm committed to using. The aero clinchers not so much. But you're right, properly set up an aero clincher shouldn't be any more of a pain than a non-aero clincher.

Roobay_today

I was a window licker as a kid.

Homebrew01

Not very much. But in a race, sometimes you don't need very much.

StanSeven

I got also got 10,000 miles out of out a set of Zipps 303s. I had the hubs rebuilt and probably can get another 5-7,000 miles out of them. I also have 404s with 5,000 miles on them. The wheels are very sturdy and I use them for everything. As far as damaging the wheels, racing probably is 10-20 times more risky than training.

hhnngg1

If you rid enough your odds of crashing outside a race are real. Some racers have ONLY crashed in training rides and not on race day.

Even if u are lucky enough to have a reliable valve extender it is an additional point if failure. And I have spent significant time hassling with several valve extenders, none of which have been bulletproof failsafe. All have glitches and those are amplified on a flat on ride . I use Teflon tape to ensure reliable nonair leaks.

jmX

I think maybe you're using the crappy type of valve extenders. Nobody would ever know I'm even using valve extenders if they were to look at my wheel, and it certainly doesn't operate any differently. Proper adapters thread right into where the valve core goes, and then the core goes into the extender. Both have rubber grommets to seal.

I have multiple sets of wheels with extenders and cant imagine what issues you're having. I did chuck the crappy style extenders that come with the wheels out into the trash bin of course.

UmneyDurak

I crashed more on training rides then in race. Mostly in the winter descending. YMMV. Also 12k miles is not that much.

For me it would mean rebuilding a hub ever year. My training wheels have 20k on them hub still going strong. Had to replace front thought because rim was starting to wear thin. Hopefully a new one has a better longevity.

I race on 50mm carbon tubulars with low spoke wheels. No way I would use those for training. They would just not last. Not to mention the hassle of re-gluing few times a year, if there are no flats.

hhnngg1

To peaks. Have a good rep.

And its telling that even you had to toss the stock extenders. It does mean you have the added hassle of finding the right extender for your setup.

carpediemracing 

Depending on the rim a low spoke count carbon wheelset could be fine on training rides. The spokes only hold the hub in place on strong rims, you don't need them to make the wheel structurally rigid enough to keep the rim from deforming massively.

My normal training clinchers, the non-aero HEDs, are 18/24H.

A really strong rim doesn't need spokes to support your weight, and the few carbon rims I've held unlaced have been strong enough to support my weight sitting on them (carefully). Box section aluminum rims would start to flex so much I never put all my weight on them. In my case the rims I've had unlaced in my hands are Zipp 440, 340 (the predecessor to the 404 and 303), Reynolds DV46 tubulars, DV46 clinchers. Zipps were 24H (340s, 440s) and I had a 16H front 440. Reynolds were 16/20H for both clinchers and tubulars.

In the case of the Reynolds they were strong enough that I could ride or race while missing a spoke from either end. I popped a rear spoke on a clincher just as we started a 2.5 hour hilly group ride. I decided to keep going because my tire wasn't rubbing anything; wheel was fine. I popped a front spoke on a tubular during a race. I raced the rest of the race on a 15 spoke front wheel, and after experimenting with it on the hill and the 45+ mph descent, I decided it was strong enough for me to contest the sprint. I got 7th in the race.

15 spoke front wheel race:

Ice41000

I use heavy wheels and tires for training because they are cheaper to replace if I break something and because I get a boost from feeling difference in weight and grip while on my better wheels and tires.
And if I damage my racing wheels I still have something to use until replacement/repair.

carpediemracing 

To be fair I should point out that my crash history went something like this:
Pre-racing years: 2 crashes when I started training seriously, one on a group ride. This doesn't count all the tumbles while learning how to ride, as a really young kid, etc.
Seasons 1-5 of racing: crash every year in training, all solo
Seasons 6-10 of racing: crash every year in racing
Seasons 11-19: no crashes in either
Season 20: crash in a race (mechanical, first time I crashed due to a mechanical)
Seasons 21-26: no crashes in either

Note: during seasons 11-24 I had a total of 5 cars turn into me (1 turned left across my path, the other 4 turned right just as they were next to me). I didn't fall but I could have. For example the one that turned left across my path hit my rear wheel. I lifted it just before impact (I was going maybe 8-10 mph) and the car spun me 180 degrees. I didn't fall but if I hadn't lifted the wheel I probably wouldn't have stayed upright. And no, I can't replicate the feat. Ironically the car was turning into an insurance agency parking lot. I've gotten my left arm hooked under three mirrors and almost went sprawling over someone right fender/hood. In those situations I was fortunate enough to be able to stay upright.

Season 27: crash in a race (first broken bone in my life, first time someone intentionally caused a crash where I was part of it)
Season 28: crash in training (group ride, I made an error)
Seasons 29 - Oct 24 of Season 31: no crashes in either

I've done "training" rides on my race wheels to test them out, see how they ride, etc. I just wouldn't want to ride them all the time due to the cost of tubulars. I know I flat less frequently on tubulars but they're costly no matter how infrequent I flat them. I will say that training outside is a bit more dangerous than it used to be - it's not about wheels, it's about safety.