It's time to move on up from my road bike which I've had for 4 years. It's a Fuji CCR. I have been eyeing a Storck Absolutist and I am pretty certain it's what I'm going to get but can't figure out the geometry. Now my current bike is a relaxed geometry bike which I have felt to be a little big as I have a 90mm stem on it. I want something more aggressive this time. For the Storck I am looking at size 55. Here is the comparison between my current and Stock geometry:



Now the Storck is smaller than current which is a good thing on most of the measurements but there are 2 major differences which are the head tube length and rake. I have no spacers on my current bike and I would like a little more aggressive position so I could go with a 1cm spacer on the Storck and meet halfway for now. Then I could also run a ~110mm stem as well on Storck. What you guys think? The next size up Storck just looks too big.

Assuming your saddle-BB relationship and saddle-handlebar relationship are set up correctly now, for the purpose of sizing, you can ignore everything except Reach and Stack.

Here's some info, it's written referring to Tri bike sizing but the explanation of Reach and Stack is still very good, start here and click around: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/C...nial_3432.html

But, you said your frame was "too big" and you are solving the problem with a short stem (90 isn't that short, but still) - so in order to know if this frame will be better or worse, we need to know if "too big" means "too long" or "too tall" or both.

The stork is the same length (Reach) but lower front end (Stack).

The two bikes are identical with respect to reach - fore-aft distance. If your "too big" is "too long" you are not solving that problem with the Stork, or at least not directly.

The stack difference of almost 2cm is going to mean that if you had the same amount of spacers under the stem, the Stork's bars will be 2 cm lower. If your "too big" is "too tall" then this frame will help. Obviously, what you do with spacers on the old and new frames will determine what the "real" difference is - bringing the bars up also brings them further back, so if you have no spacers on the old frame and put spacers on the new one to bring the bars up, you will also be bringing the bars closer to you, so it will feel shorter.

Alternatively, if you compare the frames with zero spacers... With a lower handlebar, you might find that your hip angle is more closed than on the Fuji, which might make you want to move the saddle forward, effectively rotating the entire position towards the front around the BB, and making you want a longer stem (or keep the same stem and feel less stretched out, which could be exactly what you want. If you don't rotate, you may want a shorter stem.

Clear as mud?

Let's see a picture of your current bike, or at least tell us if you have any spacers under your stem.

[MENTION=6684]valygrl[/MENTION] nailed it. The only comment I would add is that with the same reach and less stack, all indications are you will still need a 90mm stem, or potentially shorter, as more drop makes the bars farther (or further, your choice) away.

Thanks for all that info! It's exactly what I was looking for. Right now I have no spacers under the stem of my Fuji. Now the Fuji also has a setback seatpost whereas I am going no setback on the Storck. So with a 90mm stem, no setback, and 1cm spacer on the stem I will be less stretched out right?

Conventional fitting says you fit seat set back based on the crank, and KOPS, so the choice of setback vs non-setback seatpost has nothing to do with stem length. And since reach is calculated off of BB, if you dial your saddle in exactly the same as on the Fuji, you will end up with the same same 90 mm stem, or potentially shorter with a slammed stem. If your goal is less stretched out, the Storck doesn't get you there, IMO.

But doesn't the no set back shift my whole position a bit forward?

Yes, if you choose to do that. But conventional fit says that your knee is at or slightly behind pedal spindle when the pedals are horizontal. Now, you can put whatever you want on, and triathletes disregard KOPS completely, but if you look at many of the standard fit systems, you only put on a zero setback post if that is what you need for leg and knee fit, not to get your bars farther forward. And since both bikes have the same STA, both bikes will warrant a set back post if you mirror your leg fit.

Lots of folks say KOPS is totally arbitrary, and they make compelling points. Personally, it works for me, and if my knee gets farther forward than the pedal spindle, I get knee pain, and lose power.

Ok makes sense. Apparently Storck's geometry is designed for no setback posts. I will try out both ways and see how it feels. Thanks for all the help.

I'm not sure how it's different in this regard--it has the same seat tube angle as your previous bike. Frankly, it looks like the frame you're considering is very close in fit to your previous bike except for a lower head tube. You're looking at dropping a lot of money on a bike. Being well fit will do more to improve your performance than fancier frame or components. I'd recommend you go find a high end, professional bike fitting service. You can nail down your position, and then find a frame that supports it, instead of the other way around.

At least for me, getting fitted was the one thing that really, genuinely made me faster (aside from losing weight and training, of course).

The thing is that I find those measly test rides absolutely useless when trying to find a bike. On my current bike I paid for a $250 fitting when I got it. It felt good but a year later I had swapped out stem, seat post, and handlebars when I realized what I wanted and then I became even more comfortable on the bike. I could very easily go drop $3k on a Trek or Specialized and get "fitted" by the shop but odds are I will end up swapping things out in the end once I get a couple months on the bike anyway.

My two main issues with my current bike are:

1. Want a lower riding position
2. Want a stiffer bike (this being main)

At the end of the day I can return the frame with no problems and go for something else.

The bike will be stiffer, most likely, because the most common description I have ever heard for Storck bikes is stiff.

The position will be lower, provided you don't add spacers.

I would assume that a 73.5 deg STA is designed for a setback post, even more so than your current frame. It is all about geometry, and I know of nothing a frame designer can do to "design for a zero setback post" other than decreasing STA.

My biggest concern, if your posted numbers are correct, would actually be the trail of the Storck. Your current Fuji, with 73 HTA and 45 mm rake, is a trail of 5.69cm, which is normally considered fairly neutral steering. The Storck, with a 73.5 HTA and 37.5mm rake, would be a trail of 6.16cm, which is much slower steering, and is more commonly seen on loaded touring bikes. If accurate, you are going to get a racier more aero position on a less responsive bike.

What I don't get is yes the geometry is funky and makes no sense but the Fascenario 0.6 is considered one of the best bikes in the world and it has an almost identical geometry as the Absolutist.

Well I talked to the shop and voiced my concerns and they said if I can't get fit dialed in I can return the frame and go for something else. $1250 out the door for the frame was just too good to pass up. Going with Ultegra 6800. They also have some 2013 Reynolds Assault for $999.

Storck is designed for an almost TT bicycle fit. You can, of course, use a setback seatpost and get the exact saddle position you have on the current bike, but it comes with a straight seatpost because that's how they think it should fit. The longer trail is a part of that idea - you'll notice that most manufacturers' TT bicycles have more trail than a road bicycle in the same size.

Whether Storck fitting ideas will, well, fit you, that's up to you to decide. It seems you have a pretty good deal with the shop so I don't think you have anything to lose.

Great info! Thanks, as I had no idea they sold it with a seat post to mirror that fit. My posts were more on "classic" road thoughts.

sounds reasonable. do it.

Well I ordered the Storck. Should have it by Tues next week. Wife also said no to the Reynolds Assault for now so that will have to wait but I found a sweet deal on the Ultegra 6800 wheelset. So this is what I got coming:

Ultegra 6800 full group (went with 11-32 cassette)
Ultegra 6800 carbon pedals
Ultegra 6800 wheelset
Deda stem and handlebar
Truvativ Noir T40 zero offset carbon seatpost

Will go pick out a Specialized saddle next week as well. Thanks everyone for the help!