Hello, BikeForums!

I'm in the market for a new set of medium-profile carbon tubular wheels, and I came across the new DT Swiss RC 38 Spline T wheelset, which, in comparison with brands like Zipp and enve, are very reasonably priced, and much easier to get where I am.

From everything I've heard, Zipp, enve, and Lightweight are the who's who of wheels, but how much as a recreational rider am I giving up by going with a wheel like the DT Swiss? If I'm realistically getting 85% of the performance upgrade of a higher-end wheel (coming from Mavic Ksyriums) for half the cost, then I'm happy with that. If, however, DT Swiss actually just makes ****ty, unreliable products, then obviously that's something I'd want to know. In past years DT Swiss rims were rebranded Richeys, I believe, but apparently on at least this wheel it's a house design, so it could be interesting.

So, any word from the BF crowd?

I think you have things backwards. DT is basic in most areas of wheels production, being world renowned for their spokes and nipples, and having acquired the well regarded Hugi hubs some years ago. The only thing I don't know that they make themselves are rims. In any case they are known for quality. That doesn't mean their products compete well one on one with any other brand, just that they are a real player. Other brands rebadge their products, not vice-versa. If the specifications look good relative to another brand, I would have no problem buying them. Read the reviews to be certain.

Fair enough. I know that DT Swiss hubs and spokes are well known and have heard great things about their RWS skewers, but I didn't know anything about their rims — and reviews of this particular wheelset are a little thin on the ground so far. Another wheelset that would be similarly priced and similarly available for me would be the Fast Forward F4R tubular, either with the FFWD hubs (which I'm assuming are just rebranded from someone else) or DT240s.

I guess for my uses—recreational riding with the occasional cyclosportive or spring classic thrown in—I probably can't go too wrong at around this price point. Or are there other recommendations I should look into?

Do I understand correctly that you are in Deutschland? It is so hard to transpose availability information from one region to another. All our hand built custom options here in the USA would not be suitable for you. That is where I have my experience, so I can't help a whole lot with brand name options. Good luck.

I am indeed in Deutschland, and I'm afraid that means you're right — very steep import tariffs and taxes make shopping with companies outside the European Economic Area troublesome at best. Hence why I'm currently looking at name-brand wheels; I know less about custom builders here, because most of the links I see for reputable online shops are for United States builders.

In case you are interested: https://www.dtswiss.com/About-DT-Swiss/Company/History

I don't know anything about their carbon rims, but have personally built wheels using their spokes, nipples and aluminum rims. All were well finished and have proven durable. Their hubs have a similar rep but I have not used them. I think there are sometimes better values or designs for certain applications, but if they make what you want at a price you are good with I don't believe quality will be an issue.

Also, many of us in the USA shop at some of the British websites like probikekit and chain reaction. While they are not custom builders, they do often have good deals on pre-built wheelsets. If they are in the EEA and their isn't some big VAT that you'll get hit with you may do well with one them.

Can't speak for their carbon work, but the DT Swiss aluminium box-section rims (like the RR465) have an excellent reputation. Having built up about 5 wheels with RR465s, I would say the reputation is well-deserved.

I have a pair of their aluminum clinchers on my CF bike and absolutely love them. They're bomb proof wheels, light and maintenance free. I haven't had to true a single spoke in 3 years and I'm not the lightest guy on the block either.

Good to know, even if no one's speaking directly to these new Spline wheels. I think they look great, the weight's good, and I've been dying for tubulars for several years and just haven't pulled the trigger.

Basically, I've been trying to figure out if there's any reason that I'd regret not ending up with some of the really renowned high-end brands, and it sounds like, aside from the logo on the side—and DT Swiss is no slouch there, and is especially well-regarded here in Germany—I wouldn't be missing a ton.

If you are happy with 85% of the performance, why not just get high end clinchers and avoid the hassles of tubulars?

I don't have any experience with DT Swiss's entire wheelsets, but I love the DT Swiss products I have experience with.

As noted earlier, their rims are at least as high a quality as you will find from anyone. IMO their rims are the highest quality I've ever used to build a wheel with. They're not light, but they are bomb-proof to go along with their quality.

I will say, though, that I think for what you get their "normal" road hubs are a bit overpriced. They're not particularly light, and the claims of durability, while probably true given the quality of the parts, are not really relevant in my opinion for a "normal" road hub. IMO if durability at that weight and price point is a concern, you can't beat DuraAce hubs. And if you woudn't wear out a set of Novatec hubs anyway, DT Swiss hubs IMO don't really add much value other than aesthetics if you like them.

Overall, they make top quality stuff.

The DT Swiss carbon rims are probably made by Reynolds. Reynolds uses DT Swiss hubs and it is likely that they have a reciprocal arrangement with DT Swiss for rims too.

The DT Swiss carbon rims are probably made by Reynolds. Reynolds uses DT Swiss hubs and it is likely that they have a reciprocal arrangement with DT Swiss for rims too. BTW, I really like my Reynolds carbon 32's.

I have a new set of the DT440 rims with DT spokes and nipples laced to Campy record hubs. I weigh about 220 so I wanted a strong build with 32 spokes. Only 1000 miles s far, but they are smooth and handle well. Not the lightest set out there with my build, but exactly what I wanted.
chuck

Hey all, I'm in the market for some carbon clinchers and came across a set of these DT Swiss RC 38 Clinchers at a good price. I'm undecided because there seems to be only ONE review online about these wheels which says the only downside is that the braking surface is downright SCARY. Granted I would throw on some Black Prince pads, but still... my week consists of 80-130 miles with 6k-10k of climbing AND descending - so downhill braking is very important to me. I'm not small at 180# so my Ultegra 6800 calipers have their work cut out.

Does anyone out there have these? Tried these? Any and all feedback would be appreciated.

And I need narrow rims like these (21mm external width) because my bike frame can't take anything larger.

P.S. I would post the link but I don't have enough posts to embed a link.

If you Google the terms "Granfondo Cycling BMC Teammachine Slr01" it is the first results.

Not what the OP asked for. Besides, there is no performance overlap between clincher and tubular wheelsets. That is, my oldest, heaviest or cheapest tubular wheelset performs better than my most expensive clincher wheels. Plus the safety benefits of tubulars. There is no way I am going to trust my life at 50mph on clinchers... BTW: I have at least 20 well-used wheelsets in my garage and an uncounted number in the attic.

Back to DT Swiss. Their spokes are among the best in the biz. Their ratchet-ring hubs like the 240 are excellent. Easiest hubs I've ever serviced. I suspect their carbon rims are Taiwanese-made. You have to do your homework here..

Other advice: try and get a wheelset with external nipples. Don't scrimp on the number of spokes, especially in the rear. Don't buy the fat-rim wheel nonsense, where current rims are getting wider (and heavier). If you're on tubulars, the fat rims provide no advantage. They actually do on clinchers, but that is only an artifact of the inherent disadvantages of clincher rim technology.

Finally, don't spend too much. You can source a decent sub-1,000 gram tubular wheelset for under $700. These wheels will fly...

Thanks for the feedback Dave. I know the RC 38 have internal nipples and that's a bit of a turn-off, but for the deal i'm getting I could live with it.

What I can't live with is sub-par braking and was hoping others on here could provide real-world experience.

You wouldnt go 50mph on clinchers because...

If you have a tire blowout on tubulars, as long as you're not already going sideways, the tire sticks to the rim, giving you at least some chance of riding it out.

On clinchers, you are immediately faced with trying to maintain control on 2 skinny metal rails of death, while the flat tire squirms around unpredictability, constantly threatening to jam up in the brake calipers.

The last clincher blowout I had was 2 weeks ago (new tire defect), and even at 10mph (on a corner), it took every ounce of my bike handling skills to prevent from doing a header.

In contrast, my last tubular blowout was due to hitting a fist-sized chunk of metal in a tunnel in the dark at 40 mph. Immediately on exiting the tunnel, I faced a slippery reverse-camber corner with a completely flat tubular tire.

No drama: I just rode it out while the wheel made some muffled clanging noises.

If that would have been on clinchers, I would have never known what hit me; I would have next awoken in a strange bed looking up at the calendar on the wall wondering why the year was: 2021...

Anyway, this safety benefit is the key reason why elite-level riding will always be done on tubulars, plus the insurmountable weight benefits.

i think the most common denominator on the 2 blowouts is perched atop the saddle

I've probably had 40 flats on clinchers and never had a problem, but "2 skinny metal rails of death" sounds bad ass.

I have built several wheels with internal nipples and like them a lot...on clinchers. You would have to remove a glued tire to true a tubular wheel with internal nipples. That's no good at all. Tubular tires are too precious to be gluing and including them over and over when they haven't flatted for some reason.

Thanks for the feedback. I've received some offline advice from a mechanic about the DT Swiss Carbon braking surface, confirming they are sub-par and to stay away. FWIW it was going to be a clincher that was tubeless ready (which I am interested in running).

To Robert's point about internal nipples, I'd run into similar issues truing for tubeless since I'd have to remove the tires and all the goo inside just to true.

Fair enough, but said tubular in your original post. What changed?