Bob Dopolina 

Some shameless market research here.

I want to open a mold for a disc specific carbon clincher rim. Right now I am looking at 23mm wide at the top (where a brake track would be) with 25mm at the widest point and 38mm deep. Target weight is 400g.

The idea is for a Grand Fondo type of rim so road riders would use disc brakes with carbon wheels without any heat issues. There would still be some aero benefit but the weight savings of removing the brake track will help offset the additional rotor weight. There would be NO BRAKE TRACK.

Right now there is very limited choice in this category but I know there are bikes scheduled for 2015MY that hit this same category and I see growth here.

So what say you, BF brain trust, to the idea and the spec? I have my initial drawing already on my desk so now it's about committing to the mold. I just want to make sure I have the spec right before I pull the trigger.

Thanks in advance and haters keep in mind that I won't suffer you lightly.

gamby

I'll be all about it for my next bike (either custom steelie or some sort of gravel setup).

FWIW, the ebay Chinese carbon companies already seem to be on it--AFAIK, they're road wheels and not CX wheels, but I'm not sure.

They make sense to me--no worries about brake track overheating and being able to take advantage of improved aero--although I wonder how un-aero a disc setup is.

Bob Dopolina 

These won't be that. We will own the mold and control the quality.

Links?

Honestly, we wanted to do this two years ago but the project kept being pushed back.

BigJeff

What profiles are possible which previously weren't with a brake track? wider, narrower, etc?

Bob Dopolina 

I don't think there would be a huge change in shapes other than a smoother transition to the tire as most rims are already designed with aero driving the concept. Really it is all about saving some weight to offset the added weight of the rotors.

gsa103

The market seems like its rapidly evolving in this case with more new models everyday. With that said, its still a pretty niche product. The real question is how would it handle say 25mm wide tires for light-CX usage? There's a huge number of disc CX bikes and this might be a natural path to convert them to a full road bike.

Bob Dopolina 

Yes, that's the ideal crossover market (pun intended).

At 23mm wide (inside 18mm?) it should be fine for cross other than it is a clincher. Even though serious cross riders prefer tubulars for uber low pressure, I think newer riders coming into the sport might favour a clincher.

I am still toying with the idea of making it tubeless ready but that adds weight and is a no go for XC.

elcruxio

Tubeless ready is a cool idea but makes wheel building a bit of a hassle. Also tubeless is so easy to convert with the TESA 4289 (stans) that I don't really see the need. People who want to go tubeless will find a way as is happening constantly in the MTB world.

If this takes off I would like to see a wider deeper section rim with a good aero profile (U-shape I believe it's called).

Are you going to be marketing it as a rim or wheelset? Not that it concerns me before I graduate but it would still be nice to know for future possibilities.

Bob Dopolina 

^^^ Yes, these are U-shaped rims.

At this point I am thinking we will sell them as setys, consumer direct. We may also offer DIY kits that would include hubs and maybe even spokes and nipples. That is still a few steps away.

I am also thinking of only doing 24H and 28H.

robbyville

Slightly niche but I would think it could be a good market to get into (squarely for people like me ). With so many varying trends on width and tire profile why 23mm vs. slightly wider or does it not matter since the inside track is what makes the difference. I think the key will be comfort but try to maintain weight for those of us that do look at that kind of thing. While I also believe that those who want to make it tubeless will find a way, from a marketing stand point I think it would be important to try and make some type of link to the possibilities for this, for your potential market tubeless could go a long way

merlinextraligh

Rolf has a tandem wheelset with disc specific 50mm carbon clincher rims.

My hesitation to getting those wheels is the concern that the disc offsets the aerodynamic benefits of the deep sectioned rim.

Any data, or thoughts on how the aerodynamics of this balance out?

elcruxio

Then again, Enve does ship their MTB wheels already taped with gorilla tape, so that would be a marketing standpoint. Like "If you wanna, we can tape these up for you so you can use tubeless"
Just get a shipment of valves and TESA 4289 tape

gamby

Disc Brake 38mm Clincher Carbon Road Wheels Carbon Fiber Cyclocross Wheelset | eBay

Cyclocross Road Bike Wheel Full Carbon Fiber 50mm Clincher Disc Brake Hub Cheap | eBay

gc3

Bob D..... I would buy exactly the rim you described. Where do I sign up on the waiting list?

Bob Dopolina 

Those appear to have brake tracks.

Bob Dopolina 

Best case scenario we would like to launch late summer 2014. That is a pretty tight time frame.

Bob Dopolina 

Good idea.

We supply these in the OE so we could just move them to our retail side.

Bob Dopolina 

I think 23 wide (at he 'brake track') widening out to 25mm further down and with an 18mm inner width hits the road market with 23c or 25c tires. Any wider and 23c becomes a bit dodgey. I'd like to avoid that.

It also allows for cross use but not so much on the 29er side unless you wanted somet slicks on there.

DinoShepherd

Bob...

My only disc road bike is my commuter and it will stay my only disc road bike.

I think your target market though is right on.

I would also consider the CX market. Everyone is going disc here. You can't give away a rim brake cross bike anymore. A true dieing breed.

I am also building a set of new wheels for next season and these sound like fun. And while you are correct in that many pros run tubulars, the bulk of the fields, even elite are running clincher or tubeless setups.

The whole gravel category is getting a lot of industry attention as you know, but the numbers are small.

I guess where this is all going is that I would bias the rim width for wider 25mm plus tires.

Best of luck in this project.

Bob Dopolina 

No. No data but I also haven't looked.

The real target market is the Grand Fondo riders. As it is discs are gaining popularity in that segment and guys using deep carbon clinchers aren't allowed to in many cases. So that leaves them with rim brakes and 30mm alloy (470~570grams per rim) or disc brakes and some deep carbon (same weight range). If we can get 38mm U-shaped carbon rims to 400g (target 390g) we save enough weight that rotors aren't a penalty and there is some aero benefit from the carbon rims vs the 30mm alloy.

So you claw back some of the weight penalty with discs and add some aero over alloy.

It is also worth noting that there are lighter weight disc brakes in the pipeline. It won't be long before the difference between rim vs disc brake bikes is a wash. We just want to be part of getting it there before the big boys do it in 2015/16MY.

robbyville

Solid idea. Now that I think about it, I think you're right about the width that you explained. I recently put some 23's on my wider alloy wheels vs. the previous 25mm and I think I actually feel a difference (not a positive one) comfort wise