Doge

I tried spinning 20 or so years ago when it was new. It was super fun. I was a 300mile a week rider. It really hurt. I stopped doing it.

My kid is an accomplished road cyclist. A friend invited him to a spin class. It pretty much messed him up for a week.

I don't see the two - spin vs. road are so close.

etw

I have done spinning during the off season for a few years. It has been good to keep fitness when I can't get outside on the bike.

txags92

What was it specifically that "messed him up for a week"?

GoHorhay

I still weight train a few days a week and always finish with a cardio spin session. I do intervals and get a great workout in a short amount of time. The bike can be set up reasonably close to my road bike and I have seen great results. During poor weather I regularly attend the classes as well. Overall, I think it has increased my strength and endurance...

The Kaiser bikes at my gym have cadence and power meters which will show your averages after each session.

Doge

He was very sore. 100mile Cat 2 races don't make him sore. This 45 min spin thing did. So "messed him up" meant he wasn't up for his regular rides and training.

It is a different muscle set. I agree it can make you fit - for spinning, losing weight, looking good...but I don't think it makes you a better (faster) cyclist. I actually think it detracts.

txags92

It is only a different muscle set if you are doing a bunch of standing work. If you are seated and spinning a proper cadence in a reasonable resistance setting it is the exact same muscle groups you use riding outdoors. If the instructor put your son through a bunch of standing work, then I totally agree with you. For folks who are already very fit and riding 4-5 days per week in a structured training program, adding spinning probably won't do much to help them. But for folks like me that are lucky to find 1-2 days per week to ride outdoors, spending 2-3 days per week indoors on a spin bike can be very beneficial. But again, in the organized classes, it totally depends on the instructor. A bad instructor that has you doing 30 minutes of standing work and 20 minutes of seated low cadence climbing in a 50 minute class with no recovery periods will not benefit most people. But an instructor that sets up multiple sets of short to moderate intervals with appropriate recovery and mixes in things like single leg drills and high cadence tempo drills will help most people become better cyclists.

caloso

It certainly won't do anything for your bike handling.

Doge

The OP asked about making you a better cyclist. I guess "better" needs to be defined. I would define it as faster/more likely to win a road race / crit. Cycle cross/MTB/Track I am not commenting on. I see no evidence spinning helps with winning road races.

No doubt spinning can make you fit. Swimming can make you fit, as can running and xcountry skiing. People who spin can be tough, fit and have lots of fun and its great for folks that have 1-2 days a week to ride outdoors.

Road racers stand a lot - at least more than the time they would in a class. The way Jen's sat (before he retired) he moved from side to side a lot - a whole lot. Some of the new stationary bikes now allow for side-to-side movement.
Road racers also may not spin nearly as much as spin machines with their heavy flywheels cause. Most road racing power comes from the down stroke. The Armstrong and Froome group were/are not normal in peddling style.

I'm sure there are some racers that use spin machines or do spin classes, I just haven't heard of any. Many do rollers and resistance trainers - but that is a different topic.




I believe spinning will however, helps very little in winning bike races.

canam73

Spinning not only makes you a better cyclist, it will make you a better person. All that positive reinforcement? Forget about it!

"Outstanding", "You can do it!", "You're a star!" The sky is the limit. You can't get that kind of improvement on the road.

caloso

That's true. The wind, the hills, the readout on my Garmin -- they all tell me how much I suck.

Goriot

The Keiser bike is really nice and I ride it "properly". I've never done a proper spin class and don't ride it like those classes I've seen. The clip in mechanism is SPD while my road bike is ultegra and there definitely is a difference right there on perceived power transfer.
Great post carpediem, thanks. I've never seen a video like that before!

The 225W avg /hr value is from the same bike, which I've ridden for a while now. My peak power on it for just under 20s is 550-600W.

Nachoman

Trainer workouts are good for prolonged spinning, standing, sprinting and one legged drills, alll which help one's general riding ability.

Doge

Other than the one leg things, do you think an hour spin class is as good as an hour group ride?

txags92

No. But it is hard to do a one hour group ride when it is dark outside. Riding outside will almost always be better...but spinning is a good alternative when riding outside is impractical.

chaadster

I think an hour indoor is better than an hour group ride, primarily because I've never seen a group ride that was designed to be just an hour, and even if it were, given group dynamics, I think it'd be difficult to go as hard in that group for the hour as you could indoor. A crit race would be the kind of intensity you'd need, but good luck knocking one out in an hour, or when you want it. I also doubt group rides could give the kind of workout variability that you could build into an indoor program that'd allow you to optimize the time and train in a rounded, thorough way.

Again, I'm speaking specifically to an hour group ride. There is no substitute for riding outdoors, but a right-made indoor regimen could undoubtedly be a useful tool for most cyclists to improve.

Dave Cutter

I've only used a pro-model spinner once. I do use a trainer in the garage (to work up a sweat and not get soft). It's OK... it is not cycling. Traffic, etc., is part of the excitement of cycling for me and not a distraction. Plus real-life cycling adds balance and reaction thought processes not found in a garage or gym.

But to each their own! In your post I got the impression you're a convert. It's always nice to find a new passion. Glad you've found the spinner.

Doge

We are fortunate enough to live where we have lots of choices and could limit group ride time to that hour. I understand that might not be an option most places and if you only have an hour, its tough. You are right on indoor being harder on average than that hour group ride. For a rider that can only afford 3-4 hours a week - it is too hard.

Harder alone does not correlate to being a better cyclist. Rather it correlates to the inverse when most of the time is in Zone 4, Zone 5. Hard needs to be a small % of the riding. That spin instructor is dealing with a class and while everyone can supposedly control their own effort, I doubt those spinners are staying under that, they, like most are riding too hard to get better. That was the point with my son "it messed him up". More time less hard with bursts of intense along with those group dynamics - with the right group, on a real bike make a better cyclist.

Most have seen the Zone charts.

Zone 1 and 2: 80 to 85 percent
Zone 4: 10 to 15 percent
Zone 5: 2 to 5 percent

My gut, as your post supports, is that spinning for an hour is hard. Is that Zone 4? Are those spinners with an hour for class backing it up with 10+ hours on the road? If not, it is likely not useful for cycling.

chaadster

No, you read me wrong. An hour indoor can be what you make it, and can be part of a structured training regimen designed to make you stronger.

I'm not speaking at all of specific classes, as that is not the issue, though I'm sure there are many types of classes with various goals. The point I was making is that an hour indoor can be better than an hour on the road.

caloso

This is true. I know a masters racer whose training was 4 trainer sessions during the week, a race or group ride on Saturday, and a recovery ride on Sunday. Those trainer sessions were rarely longer than an hour but very intense and highly structured -- he was working with a coach. Made the podium at Nationals 45-50 crit.

canam73

Fwiw, my experiences on a Keiser gave me average power readings about 40% higher than what I can get with either my PowerTap or Quarq. Speed readings were similarly higher than what I can do on the road.

txags92

The Keiser power readout is based on the "gear" setting and can be recalibrated with a simple combination of lever moves and pedaling. Unfortunately, that leads to a lot of variability between different bikes at our gym. Hence the reason I try to get the same bike every time to limit the potential variability. I would guess that just between the bikes in our gym, you would get a 40% spread from the "tough" bikes to the "easy" bikes. The one I get on typically is within about 10-15 watts of what I would expect from Strava's estimated power on my road rides.

canam73

While I have certainly experienced variation between different Keiser spin bikes, I have used several at my gym and always have performed the calibration at the start of a work out. All of them have consistently given higher averages than my power meters used on a KK Road Machine trainer or outside have for similar workouts. This includes both high difficulty structured interval workouts and easy spinning type stuff using a heart rate as a comparison of intensity.

I have a strava account, but I don't regularly log rides there and cannot relate my power meter readings with their power estimations.

woodcraft

My buddy does spin classes, I don't. Otherwise similar fitness, etc.

His ability to power up the hills definitely goes up when he does them regularly.

Doge

225Watts/hour would be very high for a hobbyist cyclist of "normal" weight on the road. I cannot correlate the power to road riding either.

Do a watts/kg calculation and then Internet search what the pros are doing.

StanSeven

Outdoor riding has lots of "inefficient" time with traffic, intersections, riding/coasting downhills, etc. indoor can be as easy or hard as you want with no breaks. Plus indoor can be anytime of day or night. I know at night with lights, I can't go as hard as I like from poor visibility, potholes, and other road hazards. So an hour indoor is a given ; the road has too many variables.