Tesgin

I am riding in mid-30s to low-40s weather. I have decent Pearl Izumi winter bibs which are very comfortable. I also have a Pearl Izumi shell to cut the wind (which is VERY effective).

I'm still a little cool: I had been using UnderArmour cold gear but don't like it cuz it gets wet, and I get cold.

I'm looking at one of two options for under my shell, and would appreciate feedback or suggestions:

One would be to go with just a decent thermal jersey by itself under the shell (I'm looking at the Pearl Izumi SELECT Thermal Long-Sleeve Bike Jersey).

The second would be to go with just a decent base layer and maybe throw a summer jersey over it, maybe some thermal sleeves as needed, and then the shell on top of that (I'm looking at the Pearl Izumi Barrier Long Sleeve Base layer).

So that's my question. Would I do better with a base layer or a thermal jersey? I'm very pleased with my bib and my jacket/shell. Not sure what's the better way to complete my package.

Thanks in advance,
Tesgin

jamesdak 

Well I had pretty good luck with the underarmour as long as I kept moving. But I am trying to source some merino wool baselayer stuff for what I think will be a better setup. Had a flat today that I couldn't repair and wound up waiting about 15 minutes with temps in the teens for a pickup. Started to get pretty chilled by the time I got picked up. Could have been worse if I was farther out (ride in a real rural area).

linear

Don't know if this will help, but just got in from an 56minute ride heading out in 39F back at 36F 10mph wind. Wearing tight poly/spandax long top + tight thin merino wool long top + acylic sweater + wind breaker. On the outbound leg at 30 minutes I drop the wind breaker and put it in the pannier bag, felt fine on the return and came back a lot less wet than if I left the wind breaker on. It may have been even better to drop the wind breaker even a bit earlier if I was going harder. Still experimenting with the right mix of layers, going without the shell solves the wet problem. Good luck.

tsl

In general, two lighter layers are better than one heavier layer. They insulate better, can wick more moisture, and if it gets too warm, you can take one off.

pdlamb

I've got a couple of pile jerseys, and they're generally OK down to mid-30s. A single wool, long-sleeve jersey goes down a bit below that. For colder weather, I'll go to a LS jersey covered with a polypro long tee with a shell on top, then add a "technical" t shirt below the jersey if that's not warm enough. By then I'm to the point it's too cold for my feet!

Tesgin

This is all very helpful. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a pile jersey and what is a LS jersey and a technical t shirt?

I'm still wondering if I'd do better with the thermal jersey, or with the base layer. I'm getting the sense that the base layer might be more flexible?

TB

chefisaac

Look into Under Armour. Amazing stuff. I use the long sleeve base and also the pants. The face protection is amazing too.

gregf83 

At those temps I just layer up under a long sleeve thermal jersey. If you have enough layers you don't need the shell and your clothes should stay drier.

okcomutter

I got a couple of thrift store sweaters (lightweight merino wool) for the cooler fall days. They have kept me comfortable in the low 30s, and only cost 5 bucks. When I start to see the savings from riding I might buy some "technical" wool wear.

Tesgin

Hm,m. I do have a couple of Under Armour Cold Gear long sleeved shirts. One is compression fit, the other is not. My problem was not that they didn't keep me warm, but that the got sweaty wet. I was out biking last week in temps that started at 48 and dropped to about 38 after about two-and-a-half hours, or 42 miles. I was okay for the most part, but when I stopped I'd get quite cold: the back of my shirt was soaked.

I thought Cold Gear was supposed to wick water away from my body? Maybe the problem was my jacket? It's a pearl izumi shell: very thin nylon, great ventilation, cuts wind only. Maybe that's still why I was sweating? Would I do better to lose my shell, stick with the UA, and just add a thermal jersey?

TB

Virten

I wear UA Cold Gear long sleeve compression fit and I don't get sweaty in it. I use a castelli outer jacket that has a very breathable back. If I start to get too hot, there are two zippers in the front that I can unzip to let more air in (or I can just unzip the main zipper too).

chefisaac

i used UA long sleeve and compression pants and face gear in 38 degree weather and had NO issues. Lovely stuff. Solid.

tsl

Then you were probably dressed too warm.

The strategy is to be slightly underdressed, then make up for it with the heat you generate when pedaling.

When you first step outside your first reaction should be, "Damn, I need another layer". Ignore this. Hop on your bike and ride. If after two or three miles you're still cold, then circle back for another layer. (Or pedal harder.)

If you step outside and feel perfectly comfortable, go back inside and shed a layer.

No matter how may times I post this advice, I still have to re-learn it every year myself. It's just a knee-jerk reaction to want to be warm when you first step outside. That will always get you soaked in sweat, which leads to getting chilled, and if it's cold enough, to hypothermia.

In all, it's a balancing act. The goal is to balance the heat you generate against the heat you lose. You need to plan the heat loss. You can't lose heat if you're dressed too warm.

tsl

Possibly. Look at my avatar photo. Better yet, here's the full image.



That day was 25-28°F. I wore three light layers on top. (I generally use wicking long-sleeve t-shirts. They're cheaper and thinner than "baselayers".) The outermost layer was my BikeForums.Net Great Lakes Region short-sleeve summer jersey. (You can see where the short sleeves end on my arm holding the camera.) I added armwarmers under the t-shirts for the third layer on my arms. I was a little too warm that day, but I was doing a lot of climbing, so I was making more heat than usual.

When I commute at the same temps, I wear one wicking long-sleeve t-shirt, and my Endura Gridlock hardshell jacket. Same overall effect, just a different way of getting there.

In other words, if you're adding layers, lose the shell. If you're using the shell, reduce layers.

a1penguin

Dang. I don't miss Rochester weather. Grey, grey and more grey. And then there is winter and wind. tsl, I don't know how you can bike in that weather.

tsl

L, TSL.

It's easy. Studded snow tires when the roads aren't clear and dry, and watch for dark patches when they are. After that, it's left foot, right foot, same as any other ride.

I hated R-Town winters until I started cycling. Now I don't mind them. I'm sort of stuck here by the New York State Pension System for the next 13 years until retirement, so I make the best of it.

tsl

It occurred to me that I left out a key component in my discussion of strategy above.

All our lives we're taught to bundle up to keep warm. In cycling that's only half the equation. It helps to thing of the whole package of heat management. This includes generation, retention, and dissipation. It's also why what works for me may not work for you, since we may generate different amounts of heat based on our metabolisms and cycling style.

With the photo above, I talked about heat retention and mentioned in passing that I generated more heat that day due to climbing. I was doing hill repeats. There's really no serious climbs within 50 miles of R-Town.

But the photo also shows my heat dissipation strategy. I have skinny stickman arms. They chill easily, so I make sure to keep them insulated. I use my neck and head to dissipate excess heat. That's why I don't wear a balaclava until the single-digits. It would cover my "radiators".

I also sweat heavily from the the head. As you learned, sweating leads directly to chills. So by keeping my head cool and using it to dissipate heat, I also don't get streams of sweat running down my face and neck.

Other riders may prefer a balaclava to keep their face and neck warm, but wear a vest and use their arms as their radiators. I know one guy who wears knickers all winter because he uses his calves as his radiators.

It's all really personal in how you execute the strategy, but in general, you need to factor in conditions and how you'll be cycling (hard, regular or easy) then plan your insulation and radiators accordingly. For instance, I generally wear a little more when commuting so I don't freeze at stoplights. But I"d be overdressed with the same clothes at the same temps if I was doing hill repeats.

Tesgin

tsl,

THAT is interesting. Never heard that before, re: dissipation. I'll have to experiment with that.

TB

consumes

great info .. thanks for chiming in

merlin55

I just got my PI Select jersey today...very nice fit, long arms and tail, Med fits me perfect 5'11 and 170 pounds. I suggest a polypro mesh sleeveless base, the PI Select jersey, and some kind of shell, hopefully one with venting on the back to let the sweat out to keep you dry and warm. PS.. Nashbar and Colorado Cyclist have the PI Select Jersey on sale now

Spld cyclist

+1. People at work are surprised in the morning when it's 39F and I walk into the building wearing shorts. I explain that I'm cold for the first five minutes, then just right for a little while, then too warm by the time I get there. For me around that temp, it's generally shorts, t-shirt, a lightweight nylon shell, and winter gloves (because that is cold enough to make my fingers hurt by the time I get to work).

Jim S.

Buglady

You've explained this beautifully. I really like the "radiators" concept. I do something similar by varying my head covering (but I usually have something over my ears - too cold/windy and I get earaches. Weird).

Buglady

If it helps, I wear a merino base layer and thermal jersey on cool days; add a shell on top when it gets to around the freezing mark; thermal jersey + soft shell jacket down to -5C or so; base layer, thermal jersey, and soft shell down to -15ish; and a polar fleece or wool sweater in addition to the other layers when it's -20.

You need to wick sweat/water vapour away from your skin but then give it a chance to evaporate. Dual-layer fabrics are good for this - usually they look fuzzy or otherwise textured on the side against your skin, to pick up and move the moisture away, then smooth on the outer surface to let the water spread out and dry. I don't know if Under Armor actually wicks very well or if it acts more like the old poly-pro stuff that just trapped a layer of warm moist air against your body (shudder!).

Then you have to look at your outer layers - Gore-Tex can actually trap more moisture inside the jacket if you're working very hard or the air is vary cold, because the breathable membrane just can't keep up with the sheer volume, or it may get physically blocked by frost.

pat5319

I've had ok luck with both thermal jerseys and base layers especailly wool, have tired polyester and polypropelene and even silk they alkl lhelped as long as the fabric was hydrophobic and combinatins of the abve with as many as 5 layers, keep em thin, and have found things at surplus and 2nd hdn stores, I've found great sweaters and sindbreakers for outerlayers and not so great looking for layering. I don't like to wear windproof/resistant jackest without lots of vents or brathable backs as they hold in too much vapor. I love wind vests, They work great under jackets- you can unzip the jacket to let in air to cool off when needed and leave the vest zipped to keep your chest from getitng cold. for me the "trick" is not dressing too warm

Bob Ross

I haven't read any of the responses so I apologize if I'm repeating what's (hopefully) already been said. You'll do better with a base layer. You want to separate the moisture-transport functions from the insulating functions in your winter apparel. A good base layer will move the sweat away from your skin so that you don't get chilled. The air space between that base layer and your outer layer -- or, in colder weather when you're using a 3-layer system, the insulating layer between that base layer and your outer layer -- provide the warmth. A thermal jersey makes an excellent insulating layer, but doesn't do as well for moisture transport.