chaadster

Okay, thanks for the info regarding the return spring incompatibility issue. If it works, it works!

As I mentioned upthread, I'm one of those pre-15 Chorus shifter lever + Athena RD guys, so I suppose if that's good enough for me, probably the Chorus SL + Potenza RD dealy would be too, but then, the cost of buying a Chorus SL added to the Potenza groupset is pretty darn close to just going full Chorus, so absent the "economy of mixing," it looks like I still have to decide between Chorus and saving $300 with Potenza. Ugh.

bruce19

This discussion is timely for me. I have a Guru Sidero (steel) that is currently running SRAM Red derailleurs and crankset. Brakes and shifters are Rival. One of the shifters self-destructed and my LBS is saying going to Red 10 sp shifters will cost $650. So, I'm looking into going to an 11-sp setup. Would really like to do Chorus with my SRAM Red crankset. There were some killer deals on Chain Reaction but when I went to order everything was out of stock. I also emailed them with a question and got an immediate response saying they would answer ASAP. Two days later I'm still waiting. BTW, can anyone tell me how to tell if my front derailleur is braze-on or clamp on? I thought I understood what that meant but now I"m not so sure.

Jay Olson

If there is something that goes all around the frame, then your frame requires a clamp-on style front derailleur. However, you can get separate adapters that let you run a braze-on style front derailleur on a frame with no braze-on. In the old days, this is how clamp-on front derailleurs were made, but now they are more integrated and less adaptable.

bruce19

Thanks.

FWIW, I'm starting to re-think this project. If I could just find someone selling SRAM Red 10-sp shifter I might just do that to save a bunch of money.

palu

Ribble has 10% off on Campag components right now (unfortunately, not groupsets). At least that will help offset the cost some more.


Pretty excited to try out Campagnolo after a lifetime of Shimano. Probably not a life changing experience, but excited nonetheless. I'm going to do my best not to try out Chorus or Record shifters, though. I've heard they're more crisp and precise than Powershift, but really don't want to spend any more money on this.

gfk_velo

It can work but it's very dependent on several things - simple, clean cable runs, proper prep of all the parts (straight hanger, correctly torqued cassette lockring, carefully cut cable outers with clean, open curves and making sure that metal, not plastic ferrules are used on genuine cables - although that last is a general recommendation whatever you are using). Correct initial set up of to sprocket is needed and attention needs to be paid to the condition of areas like the gear tunnels (often forgotten) as any extra friction will give you problems.

In a correct and in-spec full Potenza system, there is a sweet spot for the cable tension which is dead right, and about half a turn of the barrel adjuster to either side where it's tolerable. If you take the above advice and set up with UltraShift levers, it's more like 1/4 turn each way - that's not a lot of adjustment range and it soon gets eaten up by ear and tear, dirty cables and the like.

So yes, you can get it to work but it's a longer set up process than it needs to be and within probably 1500 km you will need to re-index. IME in typical North European conditions, in 3 - 5000 km you are going to need to do a full strip, clean and reassembly with new gear inners and a new rear outer section. You'll need to do the whole thing again with complete new outers and inners not too much later as well as change the chain a little earlier than normal ...

Which, all in all, is why it's not recommended.

mrblue

So I have now had the Potenza groupset for well over a year. Actually about a year and half. In that time I've had the the opportunity to purchase an Ultegra 6800 groupset, and install it on one of my bikes.

As a side by side comparison...

Campagnolo likes to say Potenza is on par with Ultegra. What a joke. The only thing about Potenza that is on par with Ultegra is the retail price. Otherwise, in terms of function, dependability, and performance, Potenza is more like Tiagra (maybe even Sora).


Things I don't like about it:

1. Two failed rear derailleurs
2. Third rear derailleur had a bent cage which caused an incredibly unacceptable amount of chain rub
   1. This forced me to drastically adjust (bend) my derailleur hanger horizontally, however the shifting performance wasn't affected
3. Up-shift (to larger cogs) performance is unimpressive
   1. replaced the Potenza cassette with Chorus and there was a noticeable improvement
4. The shifters feel cheap
   1. Up-shift "click" in the shifter paddle isn't very pronounced, resulting in some mis-shift issues
5. All the adjustment screws seem to be made of cheese and strip very easy if you're not careful
6. The brake pad holders are designed to accommodate pads that would also work with Shimano.
   1. They do, but they are really, really hard to install.
      1. Remedied by replacing Potenza brake pad holders with Chorus
7. The chain had TONS of grease on it. Way more than necessary or acceptable.
   1. Even after wiping most of it off, it still seemed to gum up the whole drive-train.
   2. Performance was improved by completely degreasing, scrubbing, and cleaning after a couple of rides, followed by a conservative lubrication of the chain and components

Things I like about it:

1. Aesthetics - more appealing to my eye than Ultegra
2. Braking is good (but nothing to write home about)
3. Down-shift (to smaller cogs) performance is crisp and precise
4. Front derailleur shifting is good (although, not as precise and consistent as Ultegra)
5. I like the updated Ultra-torque crankset (not that Power-torque was bad).

Would I buy it again? Probably not.

Will I tear it off my bike and replace it with Shimano? Probably not.

Over all impression: If you're a die hard Campagnolo fan boy and want something cheap-ish (if you stumble upon a good deal) to put on your commuter/beater, Potenza might be just what you're looking for. Otherwise, Shimano 105 is an all around better groupset for half the price. In my opinion, at the same price-point as Ultegra, you don't get much of anything that could even hold a candle to Ultegra. However, you do get to have Campagnolo on your bike for under a $1,000USD. And for some, that might be all they need.

Campag4life

OK, I thought some more about what you meant by Campy drive. Now I believe I understand. You mean Campy drive line or rather Campy groupset. Then the answer is yes as others have responded.

And a bit more information you may or may not know but for clarity:

A Shimano 11s cassette with NOT fit on a Campy freehub. Nor will a Campy 11s cassette fit on a Shimano freehub/wheelset.

A couple more points. A Shimano 11s wheelset will work nicely on a Campy 11s bike. I believe that is what you meant. Seemlessly. Our Campy expert Graeme would argue this slightly because the spacing is NOT identical but it is VERY close. I typically run Shimano wheelset/Shimano freehub/Shimano Ultegra Cassettes on a full Campy 11s bike and it works pretty flawlessly even though the spacing is NOT identical...but very close...see pic below of Shimano versus Campy 11s cassette side by side.

And of course a Campy 11s wheelset will work fine on an all Shimano 11s bike.

A last note. Many factory wheelsets are designed...like Fulcrum which is sister company of Campy whereby a Campy freehub can be substituted for a Shimano freehub on the same rear wheel withOUT redishing the wheel. The freehubs are slightly different lengths which is compensated for with axle spacing. So some like me will run a Shimano wheelset on a Campy bike but others will convert the rear wheel to a Campy wheel with a freehub change.

I hope this clears it up a bit more.

A final note to the OP. When I buy a bike, I normal switch the groupset to Campy. Shimano is perfectly fine and many believe excellent. To me is ONLY about ergonomics.

I prefer two things of Campy:
1. shape of hoods and dual durometer of rubber used for comfort. I don't wear gloves and ride in hot weather.
2. type of shifting. I prefer the thumb button + lever of Campy to Shimano levers together.

3. Shift quality to me is 'different' but one isn't better than the other in my opinion. I prefer the tactile snap of Campy to the more stealthy click of Shimano but Shimano shifts with great precision and beautifully. Campy in the heat of aggressive riding gives me a bit more feedback I appreciate.

Aesthetics...yes, Campy is a bit prettier to my eye but not why I ride it.

Finally, I love Shimano cranks. They are my favorite and have run Shimano cranks on Campy bikes because I just love the design of the dual pinch bolt left arm and mechanical preload. Best in the industry in my opinion and have run Campy UltraTorque cranks for ten's of thousands of flawless miles. They are wonderful as well.
I also prefer Shimano dual pivot brakes to Campy but others feel the opposite.

Last note, if choosing Campy I would always shop around best prices for individual 'Chorus' components versus Potenza. Always.
Or Record if I can find a smoking deal. But I typically ride Chorus.
Lastly, the only Campy crank I would consider is UltraTorque. I don't like any of Campy's other cranks.

ksryder

I've had my Potenza for roughly the same amount of time and pretty much agree with this assessment.

Better than 105, not as good as Ultegra.

I like the ergonomics, the shifters are very comfortable.

Overall it's been a little cheap -- busted one RD and a shifter. Campy gave me the runaround on their supposed 3-year warranty on the shifter and I still haven't seen a refund.

The shifting performance itself was a step up from 105 for me -- not as finicky, easier to dial in, pretty reliable without much adjustment.

In the future I'd like to stick with Campy just because I really, really like the ergonomics of the shifters. But I don't think it's worth it to try to do budget campy -- I'd def go Chorus or above.

noodle soup

Campag4life

Redfooj,
Do you prefer Sram etap to both Chorus and Ultegra?
Can you provide a comparison? Curious about hood comfort in particular when supporting your body weight and shift integrity. Does Etap have the same feel of quality of Chorus?
Thanks

canyoneagle

Agreed - Campy loves to load the grease on their chains. I soak in mineral spirits for a day, with occasional agitation, then do a hot wax. I hate drivetrain grime.

mrblue

I'm not sure exactly HOW the RD's failed since I took very good care of them--always careful not to bump or drop them, and kept them clean and lubed. But I can say WHAT failed:

1. The first RD had a rivet that got stuck and wouldn't allow the RD to go from the 5th to the 4th cog.
   1. After disassembly, there was no fixing it.
2. The second RD had the spring in the knuckle that connects to the hanger detach inside.
   1. After disassembly (2X) it failed.
3. The third RD, after comparing it to another Potenza RD seems to have the same cage alignment issue.
   1. It may not entirely be Campy's fault. This could be due to a slight incompatibility with my frame.
      1. Perhaps my chainline is off? I dunno. Nor do I care enough, at this juncture, to check it. And even if my chainline is off, on this particular frame, I don't feel as though Potenza is worth the time-suck of trying to remedy the issue.

Going forward, I would like to try Chorus despite my experience with Potenza. If for no other reason than to have some first-hand experience with it.

rms13

As for 5700 vs 6700 comparison, there is no difference other then weight and color. I owned full 5700 and 6700 on different bikes and wouldn't be able to tell the difference blind folded. I had a bike with mixed 10 speed Chorus/Record parts and didn't care for Campy. The thumb shifter never made sense to me. I do slimmer hoods of Campy but I really prefer the feel of Sram levers but my only Sram experience was old Apex and Rival and the front shifter always seemed sloppy to me. But a lot of pluses and minuses and personal preference

gfk_velo

To add some detail to the FAQ post (you have to stop somewhere ...)

The RD springing in Chorus and above is used to pull the internal clutches in the lever that set the index points "backwards" from the designed-in over-shift when going from a smaller sprocket to a larger - if you watch a correctly-specced set up, as you shift to an easier gear, the RD actually goes slightly beyond the optimal placement and as the lever is released, the RD will move approx 0.25 mm to the right and sit directly under the sprocket selected.

If a Potenza RD is used with Chorus or higher, post 2015 lever (or Athena RD made after 2010 is used with a pre 2015 Chorus or higher lever), this action is less crisp, if it happens at all. The derailleur can often (but not always and not predictably) be set correctly to work when all is clean and new but as soon as significant wear and tear cuts in, or the system gets gummed up with dirt, the shifting will need adjustment and it may soon become impossible to adjust for a clean up- and down-shift - you may get one, but not the other.

Complex cable routes, through the frame or through the 'bars can make this problem worse, hence the recommendations.

The cable pull difference between pre and post 2015 mm levers is not huge but it is present and can with some ratios (since not all Campag 11s cassettes are exactly the same width, it depends on the starting sprocket size, 13, 12 or 11T) provide set-up errors that are not acceptable.

In any maker's systems, using chainrings of high percentage difference (50-34) and a wider range cassette (say 11-29 or 11-32), which of course are frequently-specced designs these days, require accuracy of set up and using correctly compatible parts to work "to spec". The further one goes from any more traditional set up (say, 53/39 and 12-25), the greater the potential issues simply because the derailleur system is performing towards the limits that can be achieved. At Velotech, we work on all 3 main manufacturers kit at the highest level through our Services Courses business (pro races, Gran Fondo and Sportif) and in the head to head testing that we do for Campagnolo - and our own experience is that all brands have their upsides and their downsides - the key thing is RTFM, follow the recommendations and don't mess about with the specs - and all will be well - typically problems are assembly and set-up induced, not equipment induced.

If you follow the recommendations and you still don't get the result you are looking for - don't start taking things apart yourself, contact the retailer and ask for remedy under the warranty. If you start dismantling things, the SC can't tell where a possible problem that may have started at the factory ends and where it may be induced or exacerbated by poor or incorrect re-assembly. Your contract of sale is with the retailer and it is the retailer's responsibility to expedite the warranty, via the service centres in your market. Most of the problems that we see in the realm of warranty are caused by people not following the procedure.

The single biggest SC by volume in the UK will give a warranty decision within 24h of receipt of the part - but they do need the proof of purchase and they do need to see the part. Once a positive warranty decision is made, a replacement or repaired part is typically sent out within the following 24h unless the proof of purchase is missing or there is some other query around the compatibility of other components in the assembly.

At Velotech, we are a bit slower but generally seek to take no more than 5 working days to give resolution to a service or warranty issue. We tend to see the more complex cases, so our turnarounds are slower as we often have more extensive tests to conduct.

The warranty process (at Campagnolo, anyway) does genuinely feed back into the production process and so the warranty submitted by a user may assist not only the user but also other owners, present and future, of Campagnolo parts. I have known a single warranty case to stop production of a part - but in every case, once an issue is identified, all potentially affected parts to be taken out of the supply chain and a remedy then applied, with all the completed parts removed from the supply chain either being revised, or in an extreme case scrapped. The ongoing production with the fix in place is then monitored more closely until the company are satisfied that the remedy has worked.