Immersive waxing / it should be more popular
#1026
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Agree with this. With the crap I've seen come out of new chains in a jar of mineral spirits, I'll never not clean 'em first. The wax may do the same thing, but I don't want that crud in there.
I used to do the pot on a burner thing but the crockpot require less time investment - depending how you look at it. The crock pot I just plug it in and walk away, takes seconds of my time. The burner needed baby sitting, so more time involved. Yes it will melt the wax faster and get the job done quicker but the crocks are so much easier. If you're in a hurry, pot on a stove is better.
I used to do the pot on a burner thing but the crockpot require less time investment - depending how you look at it. The crock pot I just plug it in and walk away, takes seconds of my time. The burner needed baby sitting, so more time involved. Yes it will melt the wax faster and get the job done quicker but the crocks are so much easier. If you're in a hurry, pot on a stove is better.
#1027
Senior Member
Doubt it all you want. It is true tho. Melted wax will dissolve and mix with factory grease no problem. Even if you are not replacing 100.00% of the factory lube, so what? You get it next time around. Again, precleaning is a waste of time And money. Just dump it in, straight from the package, swish a bit and ur fine. While we are at it. Crockpots are a waste of time too. An ordinary sauce pan and a stove top will get you done in 1/10 the time. The excessive fear of fire and what not is really misplaced. No more dangerous than frying an egg.
The crock pot is a safety and quality control device. While it takes longer to warm up, it also keeps the temperature of the wax down to a safe level and keeps the wax from going bad. A crock pot ensures you don't get a fire. I'll get to that momentarily. Secondly the crock pot doesn't overheat the wax. Overheating wax will deteriorate it much quicker, eventually making it useless. If you're using a more expensive more advanced wax it does make sense not to let it deteriorate. The sauce pan does melt the wax quicker but that also easily leads to a situation where the surface layer of the wax is at the correct temperature while the bottom layer near the heating element is tens of degrees above the safe maximum of 100 celsius. Wax doesn't circulate all that fast when it's being heated so the bottom can get truly quite hot.
Secondly the statement that's using a saucepan in no more dangerous than frying an egg is patently false and a dangerous sentiment. Paraffin wax has an auto ignition temperature of 240 °C which is 200 °C less than with common cooking oils. Paraffin wax has a flash point of around 200 °C which you can reach surprisingly quickly if you're not constantly keeping watch partly because of the low heat capacity of paraffin wax. Also getting paraffin wax over 100 °C will cause it to produce fumes. While not toxic they can contribute to the ensuing inferno.
So a more apt comparison would then be that waxing with a saucepan is no more dangerous than deep frying with kerosene. Ok that's perhaps a bit excessive, but if you check the specs, it's not all that far off.
You can do it, but to be safe you just need to use a thermometer, keep watch and to not crank the stove to eleven.
As an additional point, if you're using hot water to clean a chain prior to rewaxing it, having a saucepan of wax that has any part of it above 100 °C can be an explosive experience.
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#1028
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When the advocates of waxing can't agree on some of the basic steps, why is it a surprise that waxing isn't more popular?
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There's also a higher barrier to entry and a bit of a learning curve, which are additional reasons why it isn't more popular. Many chose to "knock before they try it" for this reason. Not that anyone "should" try it, I can just see how its easy to hate on.
In the bigger picture, it will remain a niche choice.
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Now that I think of it, maybe I meant to join the waxing caste.
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I think waxing is a great fit for neurotic / OCD types, clean / neat freak tyoes and "tinkerers". So it could be a good fit for a lot of riders who haven't learned about it yet.
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#1035
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I fall into the tinkerer class. When I run out of other things to do on my bikes, I wax the chains. It's relaxing and leaves me with a feeling of accomplishment. It also means I won't have to work on the drive train components for a longer time, so maybe I should quit waxing. All that fun I'm missing.
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#1038
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Can't you say the same thing about wet lubes? Waxing is inherently more complicated and laborious per application/per instance, so it seems natural that there would be more disagreement in methodology. I think that's the reason why it isn't more popular, is b/c its more complicated.
For me (and I know this is subjective) cleaning a drive train is removing all grime/grit and cleaning it to the point as if it just came out of the package. When I used wet lube a full clean involved removing the chain, cassette, jockey wheels, and chain rings and put them in the ultra sonic. Its a hobby level ultra sonic so the chain would have to go back in 2 more times usually. That gave me time to wipe down whats left of a film on the other parts and reassemble. Now that I wax I simply remove the chain, pour boiling water over it to get the surface junk off and drop it in the crock pot. A stiff brush is enough to knock off any blobs on the cassette, rings and RD. It's a quick process and doesn't require any disassembly. Yank the chain, let it drip and cool, then put it back on. The latter process is so much less tedious and gets me a better level of cleanliness. Win - win. There is a small but not insignificant start up cost to waxing but it will pay off on the back end when chains last longer and I dont have to buy so much degreaser for the ultra sonic.
This is why I wax. I get a better level of cleanliness that I'm happy with for significantly less time involved. Others have different priorities and would rather replace chains more often then spend the time cleaning. It's not any lesser of an opinion, just different choices based on different priorities.
Last edited by Ryan_M; 10-02-23 at 07:23 PM.
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#1039
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that's why i wax, the drive train really doesn't require that much cleaning. i also didn't like the mess of cleaning the drive train when i was an oiler, what a mess.
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#1040
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It was a big mess for sure. I'd go through about half a litre of degreaser an a couple rags. I understand though that I am more OCD than the majority of bike owners and I like to work on my bikes a lot, even if they dont need it. Its a joy being able to putter around on it and not have grimy hands.
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#1041
should be more popular
Thread Starter
#1042
Senior Member
Nah. Permanently set up crockpots are ideal for this, just pressing a couple buttons and having it heat up to the right temperature and hold absolutely stable, for however long, without messing around in the kitchen or handling hot sauce pans, minding cooling sauce pans, storing stuff, really could not be any easier.
And even if skipping the solvent rounds to strip factory grease is possible without purpose defeating detriment to the wax base, I will gladly do that step once a leap year when I process a new chain into the rotation and keep the wax extra pristine. Especially for more expensive chain specific waxes where a lot of the money goes into the right consistency, I won't have that soften out from the factory grease of multiple chains over time, now that I know that wax in a crockpot can be in service for years.
Yeah that is nonsense. The chain needs to be in the wax long enough to heat up to wax temperature so agitation effectively flushes out what was inside the chain. Having it sit there for longer is useless, rather agitate it a couple more times than add soaking time. But I certainly forget my chains in there for a while because I pop them on the hard wax as I turn on the pot and may get distracted, part of the convenience of the crockpot.
And even if skipping the solvent rounds to strip factory grease is possible without purpose defeating detriment to the wax base, I will gladly do that step once a leap year when I process a new chain into the rotation and keep the wax extra pristine. Especially for more expensive chain specific waxes where a lot of the money goes into the right consistency, I won't have that soften out from the factory grease of multiple chains over time, now that I know that wax in a crockpot can be in service for years.
Yeah that is nonsense. The chain needs to be in the wax long enough to heat up to wax temperature so agitation effectively flushes out what was inside the chain. Having it sit there for longer is useless, rather agitate it a couple more times than add soaking time. But I certainly forget my chains in there for a while because I pop them on the hard wax as I turn on the pot and may get distracted, part of the convenience of the crockpot.
#1043
should be more popular
Thread Starter
I can tell from experience factory lube dissolved in whatever chain wax makes diddly difference. Factory grease is similar to wax in the first place and only a small amount is applied. Arguing otherwise is, imo, made up fear mongering. If anything the solvents you put in your chain is more detrimental to your wax unless rigorously flushed from the chain and the chain dried completely before waxing. Again, its just additional steps, that doesn't help, cost money and creates waste that needs handling and disposal. (you should not dispose of degreaser in the sink even if it says biodegradable or similar greenwash BS on the bottle. Its not once contaminated with chain lube)
Next thing I will try when I need a new chain is let its factory juices dissolve in wax when I am ready to replace the wax anyway.
I'll report on it then. Give me several years.
#1044
Senior Member
Do you really believe pre waxed chains are subjected to the convoluted cleaning schemes prescribed on the forums and by the companys selling pre waxed chains? ;-) I'm betting you a dollar they are not, but then again you wouldn't ever notice.
#1045
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I am really happy if I can just chuck the next round of new chains into a bit of old wax and get a perfect prep out of it. Just another way waxing is getting easier after the very initial setup.
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#1046
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I'm intrigued by the idea of not cleaning off the factory grease to make it even easier. I also don't clean the drivetrain outside of bi-annual whole bike cleans.
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#1047
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It was a big mess for sure. I'd go through about half a litre of degreaser an a couple rags. I understand though that I am more OCD than the majority of bike owners and I like to work on my bikes a lot, even if they dont need it. Its a joy being able to putter around on it and not have grimy hands.
Even when I was using regular lube, my drivetrain looked new all the time. I was wiping my chain with a rag after every ride. Quick and effective. Plus, a clean bike is a fast bike.
#1048
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#1050
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I was not expecting that. I'll ride it as long as I can with the factory lube/grease/whatever.
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