Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Any other 1x road climbers here?

Search
Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Any other 1x road climbers here?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-22-22, 10:07 AM
  #126  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,573
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3261 Post(s)
Liked 2,583 Times in 1,535 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Is that supposed to be a joke? The hub shift is inherently a superior concept to the FD concept. That's all.
I'm not the one hyping a product like a carny barker telling everyone that's willing to listen how superior it is..........yet not willing to use/purchase the product himself. If you had one and put up a review saying the same things, people might take you more seriously. But, as it is, you just sound like a snake oil salesman roaming from town to town on a Gypsy Wagon.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 12-22-22, 10:21 AM
  #127  
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,279

Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2018 Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5120 Post(s)
Liked 8,456 Times in 3,993 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
If you really think it's superior, you'd be riding it.
I'm not so sure, man. There are a lot of things that I think are superior to what I have. I just can't afford them
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 12-22-22, 10:22 AM
  #128  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,251

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1107 Post(s)
Liked 562 Times in 448 Posts
My 30/32 and 30/36 are both lower than what can be had with the classified hub (and the 50T chainring to match my 46/10). The classified cassettes must be used.

I use 46/30 grx cranks specifically, to get more low gear than a 46/33 SRAM crank offers. It works perfectly with SRAM 12. The 33/46 = .72 lacks range.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-22-22 at 03:43 PM.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 10:23 AM
  #129  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
If you really think it's superior, you'd be riding it.

Though I don't think it's been around long enough to reach that conclusion. Reliability and longevity are important to some of us.
Maybe you haven't read my previous replies fully. I was talking conceptually, as in hub shift vs multiple chainrings and FD. The main reason I'm not riding with a Classified Hub at this point is high cost and limited wheelset/cassette options. But none of that changes the conceptual argument. In reality I'll probably be riding 1x next time around and then the whole range shift problem disappears. Maybe it will be a 1x13/14/15? We're nearly at the point where front or hub shifting would be obsolete for most uses - as it practically is now in mtb.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-22-22, 10:25 AM
  #130  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
I'm not the one hyping a product like a carny barker telling everyone that's willing to listen how superior it is..........yet not willing to use/purchase the product himself. If you had one and put up a review saying the same things, people might take you more seriously. But, as it is, you just sound like a snake oil salesman roaming from town to town on a Gypsy Wagon.
I'll just pop you on my troll list. I can't be a snake oil salesman if I'm not selling anything.

Last edited by PeteHski; 12-22-22 at 10:29 AM.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 10:28 AM
  #131  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,573
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3261 Post(s)
Liked 2,583 Times in 1,535 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I'll just pop you on my troll list.
It's a free country. Do as you wish.
seypat is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 10:31 AM
  #132  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
It's a free country. Do as you wish.
Thanks for clarifying.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 10:33 AM
  #133  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,174
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7163 Post(s)
Liked 11,368 Times in 4,858 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
I'm not so sure, man. There are a lot of things that I think are superior to what I have. I just can't afford them
That's part of my point: cost is an important element when comparing these options.

And PeteHski himself acknowledges the limited cassette and wheelset options.
Koyote is online now  
Old 12-22-22, 10:37 AM
  #134  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
That's part of my point: cost is an important element when comparing these options.
Of course cost is important. But it doesn't change the conceptual arguments and hub shifting would become much cheaper if it was more mainstream. At the moment it's a no-contest on cost, which is why we all make do with FDs.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-22-22, 10:50 AM
  #135  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,573
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3261 Post(s)
Liked 2,583 Times in 1,535 Posts
I'll say it again:

then it's not a superior product overall yet is it?
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 12-22-22, 11:14 AM
  #136  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
I'll say it again:
Nobody cares
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 11:19 AM
  #137  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote

And PeteHski himself acknowledges the limited cassette and wheelset options.
Often the issue with new tech. But doesn’t change the fact that FDs are conceptually limited. It’s the reason why engineers are looking for alternative, inherently better solutions.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-22-22, 11:29 AM
  #138  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,573
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3261 Post(s)
Liked 2,583 Times in 1,535 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Nobody cares
Evidently they do, or you wouldn't have conceded and made this statement.

At the moment it's a no-contest on cost, which is why we all make do with FDs.
BTW, I agree with your statements about hub shifting concepts but it's not there yet. It's not there with the Rolhoff, or the IGH. It's not there with this product yet either. It will probably will at some point, but not currently.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 12-22-22, 11:31 AM
  #139  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,148

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4073 Post(s)
Liked 7,665 Times in 3,076 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
My 30/32 and 30/36 are both lower than what can be had with the classified hub. The classified cassettes must be used.
Nope. The classified hub can give you the equivalent of a 28/34 or 27/34.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 11:39 AM
  #140  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,174
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7163 Post(s)
Liked 11,368 Times in 4,858 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Often the issue with new tech. But doesn’t change the fact that FDs are conceptually limited. It’s the reason why engineers are looking for alternative, inherently better solutions.
You’re like a dog with a bone.
Koyote is online now  
Old 12-22-22, 11:52 AM
  #141  
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,572
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8444 Post(s)
Liked 9,398 Times in 4,618 Posts
You could get a Pinion transmission. It's a 12 speed planetary transmission contained in the bottom bracket. 600% range, but a bit heavy.
big john is offline  
Likes For big john:
Old 12-22-22, 12:00 PM
  #142  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,251

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1107 Post(s)
Liked 562 Times in 448 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Nope. The classified hub can give you the equivalent of a 28/34 or 27/34.
Without losing top gear?

If I want a 50/11 top gear, all you can get is 50/34x0.7= 1.03. That's nothing special.

If a 40 chain ring is used, then 40x 0.7 = 28. Then top gear is a useless 40/11.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-22-22 at 12:11 PM.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 12:07 PM
  #143  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,148

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4073 Post(s)
Liked 7,665 Times in 3,076 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Without losing top gear?
Your post was very clearly about the low end gearing.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 02:13 PM
  #144  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
You’re like a dog with a bone.
Maybe it's just because I'm a mechanical design engineer. As long as I can remember I have been underwhelmed with the whole derailleur gear change concept on bikes, although continual development over the past 40 years has greatly improved it, especially at the rear. But the FD always strikes me as something that could be replaced by something inherently better and maybe we are finally going to see that happen over the next decade. Both with 1x and/or hub gears.

I would be surprised if the pros are racing with FDs in another 10 years, but I suppose that depends mainly on what direction Shimano/SRAM decide to go.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-22-22, 04:00 PM
  #145  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,251

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1107 Post(s)
Liked 562 Times in 448 Posts
I'm a mechanical engineer too. I haven't had the FD shifting problems that many others have and yes, I use riding techniques that help to overcome common shifting problems that others complain about. SRAM AXS has a compensating mode that takes care of sprocket shifting after a chainring shift. I don't use it because I would almost never be grinding away in the big ring and suddenly decide to shift to the little ring. I do set a 2-sprocket limit on multi-shifts. If I really want some compensating shifting, all I have to do is hold the shift lever and it shifts two sprockets. I deliberately use the largest range at the crank, since it really doesn't require much sprocket shifting, if ridden effectively.

I like SRAM 10-36 or 10-33 cassettes for their large range. A cassette that starts with an 11 would need a 40T largest sprocket to match the range of a 10-36. If that much range isn't needed, I have 10-33 cassettes that gives me back the 14T sprocket missing from the 10-36. I notice that Shimano added a 11-36 12 speed cassette to match SRAM's lowest road sprocket, but their smallest chain ring is a 34. To get more range from my SRAM drivetrain, I use a Shimano GRX 46/30 crank. I can match the range of a Shimano 11-36 with my 10-33.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-23-22 at 08:24 AM.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 12-22-22, 06:16 PM
  #146  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 341

Bikes: Windsor TimeLine; Linus Gaston 3; Sears Free Spirit

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked 99 Times in 46 Posts
I am not familiar with the Classified hub. How does it differ from what Sturmey-Archer has offered for decades with a hybrid drivetrain? Even now, Sturmey offers a three speed hub for which you can thread an eight or nine speed cassette onto the drive side: 24 to 27 gears without overlapping, and a clean 1x climbing solution.
rudypyatt is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 06:49 AM
  #147  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveSSS
I'm a mechanical engineer too. I haven't had the FD shifting problems that many others have and yes, I use riding techniques that help to overcome common shifting problems that others complain about. SRAM AXS has a compensating mode that takes care of sprocket shifting after a chainring shift. I don't use it because I would almost never be grinding away in the big ring and suddenly decide to shift to the little ring. I do set a 2-sprocket limit on multi-shifts. If I really want some compensating shifting, all I have to do is hold the shift lever and it shifts two sprockets. I deliberately use the largest range at the crank, since it really doesn't require much sprocket shifting, if ridden effectively.

I like SRAM 10-36 or 10-33 cassettes for their large range. A cassette that starts with an 11 would need a 40T largest sprocket to match the range of a 10-36. If that much range isn't needed, I have 10-33 cassettes that give me back the 14T sprocket missing from the 10-36. I notice that Shimano added a 11-36 12 speed cassette to match SRAM's lowest road sprocket, but their smallest chain ring is a 34. To get more range from my SRAM drivetrain, I use a Shimano GRX 46/30 crank. I can match the range of a Shimano 11-36 with my 10-33.
I tried the auto-compensating mode with SRAM AXS and didn't like it at all. Too much crunching on the cassette when trying to get back on the power quickly - like at the foot of a steep climb following a downhill. So I soon went back to independent front and rear shifting to avoid that. I also have the 2-sprocket multi-shift limit setup, but rarely use that function.

My SRAM AXS has a 10-33 cassette, with 35/48T chaninrings. That gives a pretty decent range for 99% of my riding. No complaints there really. But still the whole FD concept is fundamentally weak in my view. But at least road biking is by far the least demanding of front shifting, so much less of an issue than it was with mountain biking. I'm pretty sure that's why FDs rapidly disappeared from modern mountain bikes after 1x arrived on the scene.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 07:00 AM
  #148  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,874
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4644 Post(s)
Liked 5,178 Times in 3,200 Posts
Originally Posted by rudypyatt
I am not familiar with the Classified hub. How does it differ from what Sturmey-Archer has offered for decades with a hybrid drivetrain? Even now, Sturmey offers a three speed hub for which you can thread an eight or nine speed cassette onto the drive side: 24 to 27 gears without overlapping, and a clean 1x climbing solution.
Good question and I don't know the answer. I suspect it's mainly Classified's focus on high-end lightweight road use. I presume the Sturmey-Archer system is much heavier. Also not sure about the torque limit with Sturmey-Archer? May or may not be an issue for high performance users.

Just Googling now I see the Classified Hub is already finding it's way into the pro peloton. Also some interesting pro/con points raised in this article

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cla...n-pro-peloton/

*Note: for all the cynical people, I have no link with Classified and don't give a **** whether or not you choose to spend £1000 on it!

Last edited by PeteHski; 12-23-22 at 11:25 AM. Reason: To make seypat feel better about himself
PeteHski is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 09:17 AM
  #149  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,573
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3261 Post(s)
Liked 2,583 Times in 1,535 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Good question and I don't know the answer. I suspect it's mainly Classified's focus on high-end lightweight road use. I presume the Sturmey-Archer system is much heavier. Also not sure about the torque limit with Sturmey-Archer? May or may not be an issue for high performance users.

Just Googling now I see the Classified Hub is already finding it's way into the pro peloton. Also some interesting pro/con points raised in this article

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cla...n-pro-peloton/

*Note: for all the cynical bastards, I have no link with Classified and don't give a **** whether or not you choose to spend £1000 on it!
Got to admit, your passion for your cause is right up there with the people on the Waxing thread. You should however, refrain from calling the rest of the posters on the thread a word that the mods might think is vulgar. I'd consider an edit.

Last edited by seypat; 12-23-22 at 09:33 AM.
seypat is offline  
Old 12-23-22, 10:02 AM
  #150  
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,897
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1467 Post(s)
Liked 1,495 Times in 876 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski

I would be surprised if the pros are racing with FDs in another 10 years, but I suppose that depends mainly on what direction Shimano/SRAM decide to go.
Some teams run 1x for the flatter classic races now. Also a lot of TT bikes are going 1x for flatter courses.

Trek Segafredo ran 54T front rings with 10-36 cassettes at Paris Roubaix and a few other races in 2022. The benefits they cited are a straighter chainline and less chance of chain drop on the cobbled sectors of the race - further helped by the K-Edge chain guide. Looks like a narrow-wide chainring, and that SRAM AXS RD is clutched/damped to eliminate chain slap and bounce.

Pretty sure the Shimano teams are still all on 2x for these races, which probably has to do more with being "sponsor correct" than anything else.




Edit - it actually looks like a few Shimano teams did run 1x as well. Total Energies had a few bikes with XTR and GRX derailleurs this year:




Last edited by msu2001la; 12-23-22 at 10:18 AM.
msu2001la is offline  
Likes For msu2001la:


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.