Atlas Shrugged

Demographics are going against the '50s to 80's collectables market in most categories. The people who had an attachment to halo products during that period but could not afford them are aging out and are in their paring-down phase of life. There are outliers, but generally, the trend holds with most collectables. With cycling, the purchaser pool is limited to passionate cyclists, males (with the odd exception), with discretionary income, an interest in collectables from that period, and still acquiring additional items.

billytwosheds 

jdawginsc 

Or Jack Nicholson from The Shining...

Kilroy1988 

'Eh, but the burglars from Home Alone actually were very interested in acquiring things!

repechage

US demographics are not falling off a cliff as severely like other developed countries, but there is a turn approaching.
There are economic headwinds, but those have been obvious since 2007 on ebay. by 2008 there was a flip from auctions with no reserve to auctions with a high enough starting price to stand in for a reserve, then buy it now or best offer. That has continued. Components fare a bit better, but more set price or if does not sell, buy it now or make offer. Factor in that ebay has been ratcheting up the fees and shipping has very much increased, a challenge. I expect 2025 will be better.

Piff 

I agree, but it does seem like the stock of old bikes in good shape continues to shrink having been bought up and held by said demographic, as well as run into the ground (thank god we're well past the fixie times) by some of the younger crowd. Though the xbiking/altbiking subculture lightly and slightly flirts with permanent change to frames. Luckily they mess around with old 80s/90s mountain bikes usually. Perhaps in the next 10-25 years we'll see a large disbursement of high-end frames and bikes onto the 2nd hand market from those who grew up with bikes from the 50s-80s. And at that point, who will purchase them? I'm 29 and a severe outlier from most of the people my age who are into bikes...I wouldn't mind picking up a high end 70s race bike to be set up to be a sports tourer on the cheap

Another funny thing is parts availability. Electric shifting and disc brakes will continue to be pushed onto the market. Shimano Cues is a sign of the times, mechanical shifting is really starting to go the way of the dodo. At least, high quality parts. Luckily, friction shifting will always remain, but it's pretty annoying that shimano decided to change the cable pull with Cues and really stick it to the customer. As for what's next, who knows, the nigh-unkillable square taper bottom bracket might be on the chopping block within the decade.

Atlas Shrugged

The prices have been flat for a long time not including inflation and there seems to be no end to supply of what is considered as collectibles on eBay and local used marketplaces. Many aficionados of C&V have numerous if not dozens of bikes and have hit their acquisition limit because of personal restrictions not inaccessibility. A interesting point with bicycle collectables is there no real market for significant items with a history such as race winning bikes. For example Tom Boonen’s Paris Roubaix winning bikes or others. You would think they would show up at auctions demanding premium prices like other sport memorabilia but generally that is not the case.

Piff 

I guess my perspective is slightly different, I think there's been price increases for well-preserved bikes compared to 5-10 years ago. And I generally agree that many probably have hit their limit, but a lot in 'the trade' buy and sell through a revolving door. I don't really follow the top top end (because I can't afford it), but I am surprised to hear that the race-winning bikes don't command a steep premium. You'd think there'd be no higher trophy for the mega-fans.

bibliobob

Yes, and Cyril had lots of exposure to '79 Masis!

rccardr 

Like many collectible items (stamps, coins, automobiles, etc.) a significant number of sales occur privately.
Many very-high-end collectors don’t bother with conventional public sites like eBay, Facebook or CL.
So yes, there is a market for those types of collectibles but no, it isn’t public or common knowledge.

joesch

Doc is correct.
I follow and participate in the C&V sales of both bikes and sports (mostly tennis) sales pretty closely and know that there is a market for famous items especially used by famous players. It is a little sad that some of the later famous riders and players may not have appreciated or sell for as much as more recent star performers.

alexihnen 

I see this as well and find it particularly disappointing. Sports memorabilia is a massive industry. And even accounting for the relative popularity of cycling versus other major sports, I'm shocked at the the low price for some items. Trying to view it objectively, with a bike you are purchasing the actual tool an athlete used to perform his/her craft. It's almost like having the Indy Car driven by Mario Andretti. It would seem to be much more connected to the athlete and the sport's history than a game-worn baseball or basketball jersey, or a pair of shoes, but that's not what the market says. (Probably should be on another thread at this point.)

merziac

It also seems like some of this is secret society like biz.

They sell amongst themselves, often for very good money and we never see or hear anything about it, not that we could get in on it or stomach the POA anyway.

Atlas Shrugged

The fact that many collectibles trade directly without going through a public process is another indication of the limited demand. As demand increases there is a strong incentive to market the collectible to the greatest number of potential buyers. As the potential buyers are so limited it is not worth the marketing costs to promote the product. A Confente showed up at a major auction a while ago but not sure of the outcome.

Hobbiano 

Is this the C & V sales sub forum?

cinelliguy 

I totally agree and totally disagree with the idea that the market for interesting/rare bikes are off to any measurable degree. Selling to a friend collector is so much better than eBay or CL and such.

Guy Apple

Kilroy1988 

Sorry to keep this off-topic nonsense going, but I have to chime in with the fact that in England many of the finest classic lightweight bicycles are traded rather inexpensively among the group of several hundred members in the Veteran-Cycle Club. The bi-monthly newsletters include a rather extensive classified section and most of the stuff is expected to trade hands in person at regional cycle jumble events. Some of the most experienced eBay UK purveyors are clearly making sizable profits by attending such events and bringing the bicycles and components into the public view for perhaps the first time since new in the 1930s-'50s.

-Gregory

bikingshearer 

Another bump to save iab the trouble.

Somebody please buy this bike. All this waiting is giving it a terrible "I'm unloveable" complex. Kind of like Aaron Rodgers on draft day . . . .

beech333

It will likely be taking a trip south tomorrow, but full visitation rights would be allowed. With any luck, iab could ride it next year if there is a return of the Chicagoland spring rides.

rccardr 

1) Not to take IAB’s sale posting entirely off course and perhaps to give it yet another affectionate bump, your economics weakness is showing. As PRICE increases, all being equal, demand falls.
2) Only high end/expensive/truly rare and collectible items sell privately. ‘Many’ is a misnomer. Lots of stuff gets marketed to the greatest number of potential buyers.
3) The comment about the Confente has no bearing on this discourse.

bibliobob

I support this plan!

Atlas Shrugged

C&V bikes are fairly reasonably priced in almost all cases with no examples of a C&V bike even getting close to the price of a modern equivalent. There is no indication of any substantial price increases in the C&V market and this is before the current enthusiasts age out and start dumping bikes into a market with very limited demand. Collecting 60’s to 80’s bikes is just not a thing for younger followers of the sport. This is very evident with the high prices people are getting for older BMX gear which the current generation of collectors can relate to.

This would make cycling an outlier amongst collectibles; cars, art, watches, sports memorabilia etc. all have a public sales component so that the greatest value is achieved by the seller. Your idea that there is a secret cabal of buyers paying top dollar for premium cycling collectables without any public knowledge really makes no sense. More likely these collectable bikes are ending up in basements, garages and sheds being sold for minor or no premium.

My Confente comment was relevant as it was the only case of a C&V bike being auctioned by a reputable larger auction house amongst other collectables I had ever encountered.

But this is good news to those people who enjoy acquiring and collecting memorable bicycles and makes it a reasonably affordable hobby. If someone wants another Paramount or Cinelli it is within reason and wether the price goes up or down a bit over the time of ownership it really is not a big deal in the big scheme of things. Not so much for the restoration where you rarely get your money back out again. Even worse for those like myself who rarely hang onto bikes and sell them and take the depreciation as I change them out.

billytwosheds 

panzerwagon 

Thanks, you now owe me a new keyboard and quarter of my berliner weisse.

panzerwagon 

@iab — sorry that we’ve collectively driven your for-sale thread off the proverbial cliff.

Also, is there some C&V game of whack-a-troll mole going on that someone failed to mention?