Sam Hilborne or Cross Check?
07-15-12, 09:50 PM
#26
Senior Member
Now, I have debated on a Brompton or a Tern or just a $169 Citizen folder.
Is the Brompton your romp to the corner store toy or do you commute daily 15 + miles one way on the folder? Every bike store owner I have discussed commuting with has turned up their nose in disdain and said the parts simply are not meant for long term abuse.
I would love one if it could hold its own simply because it is such a pain locking up and the anxiety of never knowing if the damn bike has been stolen.
Is the Brompton your romp to the corner store toy or do you commute daily 15 + miles one way on the folder? Every bike store owner I have discussed commuting with has turned up their nose in disdain and said the parts simply are not meant for long term abuse.
I would love one if it could hold its own simply because it is such a pain locking up and the anxiety of never knowing if the damn bike has been stolen.
Check out this website about touring with a Brompton. https://pathlesspedaled.com/2011/03/touring-bromptons/
I'm still wrangling over the Rivendell decision. Argh. It seems stupid to me to buy a Surly CC and then spend time and money to fixing it up to be like the bike I actually want (Sam Hilborne). But I could probably customize one-and-a-half CCs for the price of a Rivendell.
07-15-12, 10:00 PM
#27
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I also hate the fact you can't "test" the Rivendell. So, you put $2700 down and then--ehhh it isn't the three grand you thought it would be. My expectations of a $3000 bike--well---
I have searched and again--for my needs I don't see (could be wrong) but I dont find Riv owners using the bikes the way I would need to use the bike: as a city rough rider. I am curious if anyone uses their Riv as a daily grinder (15-30 mile commutes), rough terrain, city beater.
I purchased a Trek Alpha 2.1 paid premium. Well, guess what it is fast, fun but not comfy. So, recently I scored a '90 steel double lug Schwinn Crosscut--LOVE IT! Comfy, rough,--
I think you should think about your needs. How often will you ride the bike? What conditions? Will you be comfortable?
My conditions are rough--a Riv is just not the bike for me at that price point.
I have searched and again--for my needs I don't see (could be wrong) but I dont find Riv owners using the bikes the way I would need to use the bike: as a city rough rider. I am curious if anyone uses their Riv as a daily grinder (15-30 mile commutes), rough terrain, city beater.
I purchased a Trek Alpha 2.1 paid premium. Well, guess what it is fast, fun but not comfy. So, recently I scored a '90 steel double lug Schwinn Crosscut--LOVE IT! Comfy, rough,--
I think you should think about your needs. How often will you ride the bike? What conditions? Will you be comfortable?
My conditions are rough--a Riv is just not the bike for me at that price point.
07-15-12, 10:27 PM
#28
Senior Member
I did test ride the Sam Hillborne... pretty extensively. Tried out several models for about 2 hours, up and down city blocks, different handle configurations, etc. It would have been nice to have had it for a whole day or even several days, but I think I have a good idea of how it rides.
I think that a number of Rivendell riders do use their bikes as a daily bike, but I wouldn't be surprised if an equal number used them "on Sunday when the sun is shining too". I think my conditions aren't quite so rough as what you have to endure.
Your use of the word "rough" is interesting in the context of bike usage. The last word to describe me is "delicate"...
I think that a number of Rivendell riders do use their bikes as a daily bike, but I wouldn't be surprised if an equal number used them "on Sunday when the sun is shining too". I think my conditions aren't quite so rough as what you have to endure.
Your use of the word "rough" is interesting in the context of bike usage. The last word to describe me is "delicate"...
07-15-12, 11:03 PM
#29
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LOL!
Oh! I have yet to find a dealer close to my location with Rivs or Surlys. The LBS want you to purchase--no return policy.
Maybe it is the pricing--I wouldn't feel comfortable paying $2700 and hitting the city streets "rough", hitting curbs, tackling bridges, racing through rain water, yikes missing one pot hole but having to eat another one, locking up outside Target, my favorite sushi place, hell where I work.
The Riv to me is yes, leisure jaunts around winding roads with canopy trees.
And when I see pictures of Rivs again--they are squeaky clean, the detail stunning. THIS OBVIOUSLY A BROAD generalization on my part. My income bracket is high but not so high $2700 would not be missed. Indeed, it is my insecurities perhaps even paranoia.
The Rivendell could not be my daily beautiful as she is: I really question are they used as work horses are are they used by university professors feeding into the intelligencia elite. Is it a fad? Is it because Grant worked at Bridgestone and now thumbs his nose at the roadie crowd and says screw pencil thin tires and lycra attire? Confession: I thoroughly enjoy the romanticism Grant has brought to biking with the Rivendell brand. I love his musing on a-tross handlebars, upright seating, 38 tires, pine tar soap and on and on. I get it.
I firmly believe if it is what you want: GO FOR IT!
I am just practical. Have I considered a Riv--yes. The price point is a deal breaker for me.
HOWEVER! I would pay $2700 to have a custom made frame by Joe S. or the Mark. guy one of the former welders/framers for Riv.
There are several USA custom bike framers/welders--stunning work--I would pay them before Riv.
Oh! I have yet to find a dealer close to my location with Rivs or Surlys. The LBS want you to purchase--no return policy.
Maybe it is the pricing--I wouldn't feel comfortable paying $2700 and hitting the city streets "rough", hitting curbs, tackling bridges, racing through rain water, yikes missing one pot hole but having to eat another one, locking up outside Target, my favorite sushi place, hell where I work.
The Riv to me is yes, leisure jaunts around winding roads with canopy trees.
And when I see pictures of Rivs again--they are squeaky clean, the detail stunning. THIS OBVIOUSLY A BROAD generalization on my part. My income bracket is high but not so high $2700 would not be missed. Indeed, it is my insecurities perhaps even paranoia.
The Rivendell could not be my daily beautiful as she is: I really question are they used as work horses are are they used by university professors feeding into the intelligencia elite. Is it a fad? Is it because Grant worked at Bridgestone and now thumbs his nose at the roadie crowd and says screw pencil thin tires and lycra attire? Confession: I thoroughly enjoy the romanticism Grant has brought to biking with the Rivendell brand. I love his musing on a-tross handlebars, upright seating, 38 tires, pine tar soap and on and on. I get it.
I firmly believe if it is what you want: GO FOR IT!
I am just practical. Have I considered a Riv--yes. The price point is a deal breaker for me.
HOWEVER! I would pay $2700 to have a custom made frame by Joe S. or the Mark. guy one of the former welders/framers for Riv.
There are several USA custom bike framers/welders--stunning work--I would pay them before Riv.
07-15-12, 11:14 PM
#30
Senior Member
Maybe it is the pricing--I wouldn't feel comfortable paying $2700 and hitting the city streets "rough", hitting curbs, tackling bridges, racing through rain water, yikes missing one pot hole but having to eat another one, locking up outside Target, my favorite sushi place, hell where I work.
And when I see pictures of Rivs again--they are squeaky clean, the detail stunning. THIS OBVIOUSLY A BROAD generalization on my part. My income bracket is high but not so high $2700 would not be missed. Indeed, it is my insecurities perhaps even paranoia.
The Rivendell could not be my daily beautiful as she is: I really question are they used as work horses are are they used by university professors feeding into the intelligencia elite. Is it a fad?
And when I see pictures of Rivs again--they are squeaky clean, the detail stunning. THIS OBVIOUSLY A BROAD generalization on my part. My income bracket is high but not so high $2700 would not be missed. Indeed, it is my insecurities perhaps even paranoia.
The Rivendell could not be my daily beautiful as she is: I really question are they used as work horses are are they used by university professors feeding into the intelligencia elite. Is it a fad?
I am a university professor! LOL! You're dead on: it's actually a mass conspiracy by us pointy headed academics. Spandex = bad. Wool = good. (Actually, I can't wear wool - bugs and itches me to no end.)
It is what I want, but like you, I unfortunately have this practical streak in me. The Brompton made sense: if you want it to fold, don't skimp on the one characteristic that makes or breaks it. As for riding around, well, I guess there are other alternatives other than the Rivendell.
Damn. I still want the bloody thing. I think too much.
07-16-12, 02:23 AM
#31
Senior Member
In an effort to drive myself absolutely bonkers, I've looked up several other bikes based on what others have posted. I'm not planning to tour (at least not a long one), and there would be a mix of commuting, road, some light trail, all thrown together. My "ultimate bike" seems to be the Rivendell Sam Hillborne. However, it's a lot of money - financially possible, but not sure if advisable. From what I gather, other options to consider include:
- The venerable Surly Cross Check
- The Salsa Casseroll
- The Civia Prospect or Bryant (seems the Bryant is a bit more touring oriented)
- The All City Space Horse (and I thought Rivendell names were unique...)
The Space Horse seems interesting and could fit the bill, based on the description anyways. Actually, it's funny that all of these are around the same price point ($1200 to $1400): I think I read at least three of them have their frames made by the same company. Other than the Sam itself, I haven't test ridden any of the above, so I'm hard pressed to imagine what they might ride like. Nearest dealer to even try them would be several hours away.
One of the key criteria after trying cycle crosses and the Sam itself is that I prefer the handle to be at or slightly higher than the saddle, so I'd consider raising the handle/stem. I like the moustache style bars. Flexibility to install an internal gear hub later on would be nice but not critical. I prefer friction shifting, at least for the front. The point is that I may spend money down the line to modify anything that is not a Rivendell.
Any insights into how these other bikes ride and would compare to the Sam Hillborne? Any pros or cons to the other bikes? Thanks.
- The venerable Surly Cross Check
- The Salsa Casseroll
- The Civia Prospect or Bryant (seems the Bryant is a bit more touring oriented)
- The All City Space Horse (and I thought Rivendell names were unique...)
The Space Horse seems interesting and could fit the bill, based on the description anyways. Actually, it's funny that all of these are around the same price point ($1200 to $1400): I think I read at least three of them have their frames made by the same company. Other than the Sam itself, I haven't test ridden any of the above, so I'm hard pressed to imagine what they might ride like. Nearest dealer to even try them would be several hours away.
One of the key criteria after trying cycle crosses and the Sam itself is that I prefer the handle to be at or slightly higher than the saddle, so I'd consider raising the handle/stem. I like the moustache style bars. Flexibility to install an internal gear hub later on would be nice but not critical. I prefer friction shifting, at least for the front. The point is that I may spend money down the line to modify anything that is not a Rivendell.
Any insights into how these other bikes ride and would compare to the Sam Hillborne? Any pros or cons to the other bikes? Thanks.
07-16-12, 02:08 PM
#32
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In an effort to drive myself absolutely bonkers, I've looked up several other bikes based on what others have posted. I'm not planning to tour (at least not a long one), and there would be a mix of commuting, road, some light trail, all thrown together. My "ultimate bike" seems to be the Rivendell Sam Hillborne. However, it's a lot of money - financially possible, but not sure if advisable. From what I gather, other options to consider include:
- The venerable Surly Cross Check
- The Salsa Casseroll
- The Civia Prospect or Bryant (seems the Bryant is a bit more touring oriented)
- The All City Space Horse (and I thought Rivendell names were unique...)
The Space Horse seems interesting and could fit the bill, based on the description anyways. Actually, it's funny that all of these are around the same price point ($1200 to $1400): I think I read at least three of them have their frames made by the same company. Other than the Sam itself, I haven't test ridden any of the above, so I'm hard pressed to imagine what they might ride like. Nearest dealer to even try them would be several hours away.
One of the key criteria after trying cycle crosses and the Sam itself is that I prefer the handle to be at or slightly higher than the saddle, so I'd consider raising the handle/stem. I like the moustache style bars. Flexibility to install an internal gear hub later on would be nice but not critical. I prefer friction shifting, at least for the front. The point is that I may spend money down the line to modify anything that is not a Rivendell.
Any insights into how these other bikes ride and would compare to the Sam Hillborne? Any pros or cons to the other bikes? Thanks.
- The venerable Surly Cross Check
- The Salsa Casseroll
- The Civia Prospect or Bryant (seems the Bryant is a bit more touring oriented)
- The All City Space Horse (and I thought Rivendell names were unique...)
The Space Horse seems interesting and could fit the bill, based on the description anyways. Actually, it's funny that all of these are around the same price point ($1200 to $1400): I think I read at least three of them have their frames made by the same company. Other than the Sam itself, I haven't test ridden any of the above, so I'm hard pressed to imagine what they might ride like. Nearest dealer to even try them would be several hours away.
One of the key criteria after trying cycle crosses and the Sam itself is that I prefer the handle to be at or slightly higher than the saddle, so I'd consider raising the handle/stem. I like the moustache style bars. Flexibility to install an internal gear hub later on would be nice but not critical. I prefer friction shifting, at least for the front. The point is that I may spend money down the line to modify anything that is not a Rivendell.
Any insights into how these other bikes ride and would compare to the Sam Hillborne? Any pros or cons to the other bikes? Thanks.
I recently purchased a Hillborne and built it up myself for $2,400; including rear rack, pedals, cyclocomputer, etc. I have no regrets. My average round trip commute is 30 miles and I ride every day I can. These bikes are rugged and meant to be used.
I would not, however, leave it where it could be stolen. For this reason, I too am contemplating a folder in my future. I have a friend who averages 700 miles a month and tours on his Bike Friday Llama. I'd say it's pretty rugged also.
Matt
Last edited by Hangtownmatt; 07-16-12 at 02:52 PM.
07-16-12, 02:14 PM
#33
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Also, if you haven't read this thread you probably should. You may want to consider the Soma San Marcos:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=hillborne
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=hillborne
07-16-12, 04:33 PM
#34
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Hangtownmatt:
Thank you for the nugget about the folder. I am seriously seriously considering --convenience. Love my newly purchased Schwinn Crosscut beater HOWEVER--I hate toting this thing up 3 flights of stairs YET I wonder about the amount of time spent on a folder as opposed to a conventional bicycle. Clearly, this topic has been beaten to death so I won't bother--but reading someone puts 700 miles per month on a folder is encouraging. So...thanks!
Thank you for the nugget about the folder. I am seriously seriously considering --convenience. Love my newly purchased Schwinn Crosscut beater HOWEVER--I hate toting this thing up 3 flights of stairs YET I wonder about the amount of time spent on a folder as opposed to a conventional bicycle. Clearly, this topic has been beaten to death so I won't bother--but reading someone puts 700 miles per month on a folder is encouraging. So...thanks!
07-16-12, 04:34 PM
#35
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Exactly re: CrossCheck expense (its a bargain) AND
exactly: get what you want why bother with buyer's remorse?
exactly: get what you want why bother with buyer's remorse?
07-16-12, 06:24 PM
#36
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I realize this thread is over a year old, but I took a look in here because I test rode both the Cross-Check (stock build) and the Hillborne (with Albatross bars). I like the ride of the Hillborne more.
07-16-12, 07:53 PM
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07-16-12, 08:27 PM
#38
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The Rivendell could not be my daily beautiful as she is: I really question are they used as work horses are are they used by university professors feeding into the intelligencia elite. Is it a fad? Is it because Grant worked at Bridgestone and now thumbs his nose at the roadie crowd and says screw pencil thin tires and lycra attire? Confession: I thoroughly enjoy the romanticism Grant has brought to biking with the Rivendell brand. I love his musing on a-tross handlebars, upright seating, 38 tires, pine tar soap and on and on. I get it.
You can't really say anything about them if you haven't ridden one, sorry. They are plenty tough - my buddy's has double top tubes, as far as toughness goes. All bikes are pretty on bike websites.
Exactly.
07-16-12, 08:45 PM
#39
Senior Member
Also, if you haven't read this thread you probably should. You may want to consider the Soma San Marcos:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=hillborne
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ight=hillborne
07-16-12, 08:48 PM
#40
Senior Member
Hangtownmatt: Thank you for the nugget about the folder. I am seriously seriously considering --convenience. Love my newly purchased Schwinn Crosscut beater HOWEVER--I hate toting this thing up 3 flights of stairs YET I wonder about the amount of time spent on a folder as opposed to a conventional bicycle. Clearly, this topic has been beaten to death so I won't bother--but reading someone puts 700 miles per month on a folder is encouraging. So...thanks!
07-16-12, 08:49 PM
#41
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07-16-12, 09:35 PM
#42
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Er, Alhedges I disagree: a large percentage of the purchasing power in America is based upon decisions made from visual representations.
I don't have to ride the Rivendell to know--I would not be comfortable putting it through the potholed, uneven, glass littered, horrible sidewalks and the always blocked, full of construction bicycle paths of South Florida. Certainly the Rivendell could get dirty. It just isn't the bike I would want to get dirty.
This area is huge: Trek, WalMart, Giant, Jamis --in that order.
The Original Poster asked for thoughts: My thoughts--I would prefer to let the Cross Check do the job.
The Surly Long Haul Trucker --look at the advertising--the bike is loaded with luggage and the backdrop imagery is usually mountainous, remote--one thinks of long hard touring.
The Rivendell even on a few blogs (Lovely Bicycle, Ilike2bike) the Rivs are pretty, the pictures are pretty, everyone is smiling, the sun is shining bright, but I have yet to see the bikes in any picture with city backdrops with a rider attacking the mean streets. The language in Riv advertising is not hard, gritty, city. Does this mean they are not used this way? Certainly not!
Kudos to you for knowing two people that use their Rivs as daily commuters and ride them in dirt.
I think is is incredibly naive to think decisions/thoughts/opinions are not formulated from visual aesthetics. Businesses spend millions on their advertising budget--trying to sell an ambience. I don't get (rough and rumble) from the Rivendell advertising.
I get ready to take on the gritty city from the Surly brand.
Which brings me to my previous posts: Grant has done an exceptional job of selling a genre, a mystique, a move away from utilitarianism and an embracement of bicycle romance. Indeed those bikes are porn!
I don't have to ride the Rivendell to know--I would not be comfortable putting it through the potholed, uneven, glass littered, horrible sidewalks and the always blocked, full of construction bicycle paths of South Florida. Certainly the Rivendell could get dirty. It just isn't the bike I would want to get dirty.
This area is huge: Trek, WalMart, Giant, Jamis --in that order.
The Original Poster asked for thoughts: My thoughts--I would prefer to let the Cross Check do the job.
The Surly Long Haul Trucker --look at the advertising--the bike is loaded with luggage and the backdrop imagery is usually mountainous, remote--one thinks of long hard touring.
The Rivendell even on a few blogs (Lovely Bicycle, Ilike2bike) the Rivs are pretty, the pictures are pretty, everyone is smiling, the sun is shining bright, but I have yet to see the bikes in any picture with city backdrops with a rider attacking the mean streets. The language in Riv advertising is not hard, gritty, city. Does this mean they are not used this way? Certainly not!
Kudos to you for knowing two people that use their Rivs as daily commuters and ride them in dirt.
I think is is incredibly naive to think decisions/thoughts/opinions are not formulated from visual aesthetics. Businesses spend millions on their advertising budget--trying to sell an ambience. I don't get (rough and rumble) from the Rivendell advertising.
I get ready to take on the gritty city from the Surly brand.
Which brings me to my previous posts: Grant has done an exceptional job of selling a genre, a mystique, a move away from utilitarianism and an embracement of bicycle romance. Indeed those bikes are porn!
07-16-12, 10:12 PM
#43
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You could get a used Riv. That's what I did. Couldn't afford new, so I just got a used Bleriot.
Try the Rivendell Owner's Bunch Google page.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...w-owners-bunch
They always trade and sell stuff there.
Also the Bleriot Owners' Group on yahoo groups. https://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/The_BOG/
You can also check all of Craigslist nationwide with one search at https://www.my-craigs-finder.com/
Try the Rivendell Owner's Bunch Google page.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...w-owners-bunch
They always trade and sell stuff there.
Also the Bleriot Owners' Group on yahoo groups. https://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/The_BOG/
You can also check all of Craigslist nationwide with one search at https://www.my-craigs-finder.com/
07-16-12, 10:18 PM
#44
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07-17-12, 01:00 AM
#45
Senior Member
Just posted over in Google Groups, but I'm not sure if I'll get a response soon based on the wait time for the moderators.
What do people consider a reasonable price for a used 2011 Sam Hillborne? I just came across one, not to far from home, and the seller is asking for $1600 to $1700. Seems a bit low given that it supposedly has low mileage. Too good to be true?
If I go for it, any things I should look for in a used bike to ensure it's in good shape? Thanks.
What do people consider a reasonable price for a used 2011 Sam Hillborne? I just came across one, not to far from home, and the seller is asking for $1600 to $1700. Seems a bit low given that it supposedly has low mileage. Too good to be true?
If I go for it, any things I should look for in a used bike to ensure it's in good shape? Thanks.
07-17-12, 05:18 AM
#46
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Bikes lose a lot of value when resold, not too surprising to see one selling for $1700
07-17-12, 07:04 AM
#47
Senior Member
Marc
07-17-12, 08:18 AM
#48
Senior Member
07-17-12, 08:42 AM
#49
Gouge Away
The Surly Long Haul Trucker --look at the advertising--the bike is loaded with luggage and the backdrop imagery is usually mountainous, remote--one thinks of long hard touring.
The Rivendell even on a few blogs (Lovely Bicycle, Ilike2bike) the Rivs are pretty, the pictures are pretty, everyone is smiling, the sun is shining bright, but I have yet to see the bikes in any picture with city backdrops with a rider attacking the mean streets. The language in Riv advertising is not hard, gritty, city. Does this mean they are not used this way? Certainly not!
Kudos to you for knowing two people that use their Rivs as daily commuters and ride them in dirt.
I think is is incredibly naive to think decisions/thoughts/opinions are not formulated from visual aesthetics. Businesses spend millions on their advertising budget--trying to sell an ambience. I don't get (rough and rumble) from the Rivendell advertising.
I get ready to take on the gritty city from the Surly brand.
Which brings me to my previous posts: Grant has done an exceptional job of selling a genre, a mystique, a move away from utilitarianism and an embracement of bicycle romance. Indeed those bikes are porn!
07-17-12, 08:48 AM
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Er, Alhedges I disagree: a large percentage of the purchasing power in America is based upon decisions made from visual representations.
I don't have to ride the Rivendell to know--I would not be comfortable putting it through the potholed, uneven, glass littered, horrible sidewalks and the always blocked, full of construction bicycle paths of South Florida. Certainly the Rivendell could get dirty. It just isn't the bike I would want to get dirty.
This area is huge: Trek, WalMart, Giant, Jamis --in that order.
The Original Poster asked for thoughts: My thoughts--I would prefer to let the Cross Check do the job.
The Surly Long Haul Trucker --look at the advertising--the bike is loaded with luggage and the backdrop imagery is usually mountainous, remote--one thinks of long hard touring.
The Rivendell even on a few blogs (Lovely Bicycle, Ilike2bike) the Rivs are pretty, the pictures are pretty, everyone is smiling, the sun is shining bright, but I have yet to see the bikes in any picture with city backdrops with a rider attacking the mean streets. The language in Riv advertising is not hard, gritty, city. Does this mean they are not used this way? Certainly not!
Kudos to you for knowing two people that use their Rivs as daily commuters and ride them in dirt.
I think is is incredibly naive to think decisions/thoughts/opinions are not formulated from visual aesthetics. Businesses spend millions on their advertising budget--trying to sell an ambience. I don't get (rough and rumble) from the Rivendell advertising.
I get ready to take on the gritty city from the Surly brand.
Which brings me to my previous posts: Grant has done an exceptional job of selling a genre, a mystique, a move away from utilitarianism and an embracement of bicycle romance. Indeed those bikes are porn!
I don't have to ride the Rivendell to know--I would not be comfortable putting it through the potholed, uneven, glass littered, horrible sidewalks and the always blocked, full of construction bicycle paths of South Florida. Certainly the Rivendell could get dirty. It just isn't the bike I would want to get dirty.
This area is huge: Trek, WalMart, Giant, Jamis --in that order.
The Original Poster asked for thoughts: My thoughts--I would prefer to let the Cross Check do the job.
The Surly Long Haul Trucker --look at the advertising--the bike is loaded with luggage and the backdrop imagery is usually mountainous, remote--one thinks of long hard touring.
The Rivendell even on a few blogs (Lovely Bicycle, Ilike2bike) the Rivs are pretty, the pictures are pretty, everyone is smiling, the sun is shining bright, but I have yet to see the bikes in any picture with city backdrops with a rider attacking the mean streets. The language in Riv advertising is not hard, gritty, city. Does this mean they are not used this way? Certainly not!
Kudos to you for knowing two people that use their Rivs as daily commuters and ride them in dirt.
I think is is incredibly naive to think decisions/thoughts/opinions are not formulated from visual aesthetics. Businesses spend millions on their advertising budget--trying to sell an ambience. I don't get (rough and rumble) from the Rivendell advertising.
I get ready to take on the gritty city from the Surly brand.
Which brings me to my previous posts: Grant has done an exceptional job of selling a genre, a mystique, a move away from utilitarianism and an embracement of bicycle romance. Indeed those bikes are porn!
Matt