dksix

He made the Kool Aid comment while quoting me.......
"IMO, it's worth the learning curve. Loosen the tension as much as possible starting out, once you get used to it adjust to taste."
I think it's worth the learning curve, hardly a "kool aid" comment. I didn't state clipless was this or that, just that I thought it was worth it. And after reading what the guy said it appears he has never actually tried clipless but rather based his belief on what others had told him and the studies he'd read.

PaulRivers

He responded directly to your comment saying "No offense but I have often wondered if it truly is". The Kool Aid comment was at the end, by that point it sounded to me like he was referring to the general philosophy - which was then followed up by other posters with a "anyone who doesn't agree clipless is more efficient and better is an idiot" attitude.

Element GT

Sentence did not end as I was imagining.

GAPavedTrailRdr

I fell today during a group ride. I have been riding clipless on my hybrid for about a month while commuting without any problems, but I was exhausted after a series of hills and was too weak to pop my ankle out enough. So I fell. I did roll into the fall, so at least I managed to suppress the "tethered gazelle" impression I did the first time I fell, where you are trying to leap off the pedals and they won't let go. Hopefully my second fall was marginally more graceful. It was less painful anyway. Now I'm riding with the left foot really loose and a tighter clip on the right.

StanSeven

^
That happens occassionally when learning. Keep at it and unclipping becomes second nature. I've been so tired I felt like I couldn't get my leg over the bike to get off but never thought about unclipping.

OnyxTiger

Completely forgot I posted this thread lol. Good to see I'm not the only one with a story on this pedal circus fiasco.

I enjoyed reading all your stories and varied opinions on whether to clip in or not.

Personally, though... I have to say... it's been really fun riding with this system. Climbing up moderate grades (1-3%) has been a game changer for me. I'm currently 270 and if you can imagine stomping uphill for 2 miles with only a downstroke at your disposal like I did before with platforms, I can assure you it wasn't fun.

Clipless allowed me to utilize the upstroke in tandem with down, and forward stroke in tandem with back, in a way that eases the strain, NOTICEABLY.

Sprinting out of the saddle is great. Even did some upshifts out of the saddle (hold the opinions here) with confidence. And in the end, that's what it's about. To not have to worry whether your sneakers are going to slip off your platform while doing 15-20mph is just plain worth it.

To me. At least.

bakes1

If clipless is a game changer for you than there is no doubt you should continue to utilize it and you can just accept the occasional 'clipless' fall with whatever subsequent damage you do to your bike as part of the whole experience and be cool with it.

bakes1

I think for myself at least, part of my puzzlement as to why people continue to accept the occasional falls and damage when there is the possibility that there are no performance benefits is I mistakenly have been assuming that avid riders are skilled enough to keep their feet on flat pedals.
Regardless of how hard they are riding or what the grade is. It seems I am wrong yet again.
It's not something you master in a week of course but really shouldnt take that long imo and would appear to be going the way of the DoDo bird.
Progress I guess.
And of course profit

growlerdinky

I fell into a Juniper bush at 9am on a Monday morning at a crowded intersection in front of a Bank of America when I forgot to unclip (well, I forgot to un-"clips and straps") one time. I rolled to a stop on a sidewalk (Hey, I was 14. I rode on the sidewalk. It was 1986. Things were different.) and just didn't pull my foot out. I teetered, and opted to fall into a bush. I knew that a lot of people saw me fall, so I decided that I was just going to lay in the bush until the light turned green, and they all drove away. Then I realized that a bunch of people would just see a kid in spandex, motionless, laying in a bush while attached to a Schwinn.

I just got up and rode away. I still have the Schwinn.

Well, I have the frame, at least.

Athens80

Avid performance riders have chosen to connect their feet to the pedals for a very long time. I certainly prefer clipless to toe clips and straps.

If I'm commuting at a casual pace I prefer platforms so I can wear non-cycling shoes.

BoSoxYacht

seriously, riding with clipless pedals isn't difficult to master, but it isn't for everyone. My mom is quite happy using platform pedals, and rides more than many people here. Falling over when learning doesn't happen to everyone.

Clipless is far safer than clips and straps w/cleats.

gregf83 

It appears that way. Most riders who want to push themselves once in a while prefer clipless.

PaulRivers

This is where the biggest gain for clipless seems to be - secure foot retention on the pedal. Sprinting hard out of the saddle keeps your foot securely attached to the pedal.

Mvcrash

I fell over about 10 feet from where I started the first time with clip less. I was more afraid of winding up in Youtube than I was about injury. Mostly my ego was bruised. I did switch to avoid slipping off the pedals at times and causing a ruptured Achilles which I am told is a very hard injury to heal from and rehab. I keep the clips very loose since all I am really interested in is not slipping off the pedals.

StanSeven

You conveniently left out "during sub-maximal exercise" again!

Performance has been enhanced for a long time with riders feet fastened to the pedals. Look at old track racers or tour riders from years and years ago. More recently there are the steel toe clips with leather straps. Then clipless pedals came out in the mid 80s. You are fighting an argument that was decided before any of us were born.

woodcraft

"Thus it seems that wearing clipless pedals did not influ-ence mechanical efficiency, pedalling mechanics or muscular ac-
tivity and that elite riders are not further able to take advantage
of clipless pedals during submaximal cycling in a laboratory
testing. However, wearing clipless pedals could be advantageous
in other cases, where the link between the foot and the pedal
provided by the fixation could be necessary, e.g., during maximal
cycling, cycling up hills, or any condition where maximal power
is required. Indeed, Capmal and Vandewalle [2] have shown a
greater power output during all-out sprints with toe-clips than
without, while Hintzy et al. [8] reported a significant increase of
the maximal values of force, velocity and power output when
clipless pedals were used during all-out ergometer sprints. The
cycling intensity chosen in the present study, corresponding to
60 % of PMA, ensured that subjects remained in aerobic condi-
tions. However, at this power output, it might be that cyclists
did not need to use a possible pedalling technique related to the
pull-up action when pedalling with clipless pedals."


This could be similar to arguing that race car tires are unnecessary because race cars and street cars have about the same traction while driving 45 mph on city streets.

PaulRivers

I would note that there's a lot of scientifically careful language in there, a lot of which is saying "we haven't proven either way".

Like "However, wearing clipless pedals could be advantageous in other cases" is saying the study didn't disprove that it could be an advantage in other cases, it does say that it is.

This relates to toe clips "Indeed, Capmal and Vandewalle [2] have shown a greater power output during all-out sprints with toe-clips than without".

This "while Hintzy et al. [8] reported a significant increase of the maximal values of force, velocity and power output when
clipless pedals were used during all-out ergometer sprints" one would also have to look into how they tested. The rider was apparently able to output more power, whether that's because the rider was used to riding with clipless and didn't feel as comfortable going all out without clipless, or whether clipless let them go all out more because of it's firmer attachment to the pedal.

To sum this up, it seems like the conclusion could be:
Clipless pedals keep your foot firmly attached to the pedal, which may make you faster while sprinting all out.

bakes1

You do realize that when they use the term sub-maximal they are comparing it to the pedal stroke of an elite cyclist right?
I guess everyone who is a proponent of clipless and everyone in this thread who says you should go clipless is talking from experience as an elite cyclist?

PepeM

Incorrect.

You are the one who posted the darn thing, you could have at least read it. That's like the second line in the abstract.

Dan333SP

@PepeM has fired shots across the bow.

dksix

I haven't fallen over due to being clipped in but came have come close to not getting unclipped. The 1 wreck I did have while being clipped in caused injuries that I don't think would have happened had I not been clipped in but I was being stupid and not even platforms can fix stupid.

Another thing I do with clipless that wouldn't I be able to do otherwise is reset my pedals after at a stop. When I ride up to an intersection of stop sign I put my left foot down while leaving my right foot clipped in. Then when I go to pull out I'll pull my right pedal back to the top of the stroke.

PepeM

As you well know, this is serious business.

dksix

It's rough out on the interweb, better wear a cup.

PepeM

Always do under my NOT BIBS.

bakes1

I did read it and do not understand where you are going?
non-cyclist vs elite cyclist. They used the term elite and as far as the dictionary is concerned, elite means best of the best.
Are you trying to imply that their definition of elite cyclist is not actually 'elite' because they are being compared to a non-cyclist?
You said "incorrect" and then failed to explain yourself.
You could have at least tried lol.
Again I ask; are all the hardcore clipless proponents in this thread 'elite' cyclists by any definition?